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McWicked

Trump Campaign collusion with Russia has been confirmed.

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You have yet to provide any proof that the Ukrainians are pro-Putin. Zilch. 

 

Are you embarrassed to always lose this badly? 

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8 minutes ago, Saucer said:

You have yet to provide any proof that the Ukrainians are pro-Putin. Zilch. 

 

Are you embarrassed to always lose this badly? 

Quote

Representing a range of views, including a contingent seen as sympathetic to Moscow, they positioned themselves as brokers who could help solve one of the thorniest foreign policy problems facing the new administration — the ugly military stalemate between Russia and Ukraine and the tough sanctions imposed on Moscow following its seizure of Crimea.

:tom:I love when you are so pissed and ESPECIALLY tired that you start getting really sloppy.

 

It makes it so easy for me.

 

I can literally see you slowing down and getting tired in your typing. And yes........I am baiting you. The best part is how I can tell you that I am bating you, and then you getting pissed off and taking the bait.

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7 minutes ago, jehurey said:

Representing a range of views, including a contingent seen as sympathetic to Moscow, they positioned themselves as brokers who could help solve one of the thorniest foreign policy problems facing the new administration — the ugly military stalemate between Russia and Ukraine and the tough sanctions imposed on Moscow following its seizure of Crimea.

 

Not the Ukrainians Manafort told him to give the data to. You're flailing in the dark. What an embarrassing showing for you. 

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1 minute ago, Saucer said:

 

Not the Ukrainians Manafort told him to give the data to. You're flailing in the dark. What an embarrassing showing for you. 

No.........those WERE the Ukrainians that were at Trump's inagurations.

 

They included Lyovochkin, who was one of the two people who received the internal campaign polling data from Paul Manafort.

 

...............through a Russian operative.

 

:jasonj:C'mon Saucer......c'mon buddy.......don't slow down.....push forward

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2 minutes ago, jehurey said:

No.........those WERE the Ukrainians that were at Trump's inagurations.

 

They included Lyovochkin, who was one of the two people who received the internal campaign polling data from Paul Manafort.

 

...............through a Russian operative.

 

:jasonj:C'mon Saucer......c'mon buddy.......don't slow down.....push forward

 

No where in the article does it say Lyovochkin is pro-Putin. 

 

You had no idea that the NYTimes corrected its story to say the data was given to Ukriainians, not a Russian close to Putin as originally reported, and now you're floundering around trying to save face. You have no idea who these people are. You never even heard of them until I pointed out the correction.  


What a hilariously incompetent thread. 

 

 

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Just now, Saucer said:

 

No where in the article does it say Lyovochkin is pro-Putin. 

 

You had no idea that the NYTimes corrected its story to say the data was given to Ukriainians, not a Russian close to Putin as originally reported, and now you're floundering around trying to save face. You have no idea who these people are. You never even heard of them until I pointed out the correction.  


What a hilariously incompetent thread. 

 

 

Serhiy Lovochkin current political affiliation as an elected member of Parliament in Ukraine:

 

Political party

 

:tom: I love how I just have you throwing blind punches at this point. CMON Saucer....don't slow down on me!!

 

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Great Jer, he's a member of a Ukrainian political party. That's some great research you've done there. 

 

I bet he also has two arms and wears pants. Clearly that proves Trump's in cahoots with Putin. 

 

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Just now, Saucer said:

Great Jer, he's a member of a Ukrainian political party. That's some great research you've done there. 

 

I bet he also has two arms and wears pants. Clearly that proves Trump's in cahoots with Putin. 

 

He's part of the pro-Russian political party.

 

The same one I already showed you on a previous page.

 

So..............you're getting a little too tired to remember previous posts:jasonj: C'mon Saucer, don't let your elbows drop, let's keep it going!!

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6 minutes ago, jehurey said:

He's part of the pro-Russian political party.

 

The same one I already showed you on a previous page.

 

So..............you're getting a little too tired to remember previous posts:jasonj: C'mon Saucer, don't let your elbows drop, let's keep it going!!

 

Prove it's pro-Putin.

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Just now, Saucer said:

 

Prove it's pro-Putin.

Hmmmm. they want Russia as the national language.

 

They want Ukraine to be decentralized

 

And they want to stay out of NATO, which is specifically a Putin goal to maintain ex-Soviet states to stay out of the west:

 

 

Quote

 

Ideology and stances

220px-Opposition_Bloc.png
 
Logo of the party 2014-2018

According to Tadeusz Olszański [pl], of the Centre for Eastern Studies, the party's 2014 election programme was socially liberal and pro-Russophone.[2] The party's platform envisages protecting the status of Russian as a regional language.[6]

The party wants "maximum decentralization" for Ukraine.[6]

The party wants a non-aligned status for Ukraine and wants to prevent it from becoming a NATO member.[6]

 

See...........that's a how a question gets answered, Saucer.

 

Maybe you can do that someday.:jasonj:

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Why do lie so stupidly?

 

It doesn't say they want Russia as the national language, they want it as a regional language, which makes sense because there are so many Russian transplants in certain areas of the Ukraine. 

 

And how is federalism pro-Putin?

 

And how is wanting to keep Ukraine neutral and out of NATO inherently pro-Putin?

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Saucer said:

Why do lie so stupidly?

 

It doesn't say they want Russia as the national language, they want it as a regional language, which makes sense because there are so many Russian transplants in certain areas of the Ukraine. 

 

And how is federalism pro-Putin?

 

And how is wanting to keep Ukraine neutral and out of NATO inherently pro-Putin?

 

 

 

 

TO answer your NATO question, that's the easiest:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-nato-putin/putin-warns-nato-against-closer-ties-with-ukraine-and-georgia-idUSKBN1K92KA

 

Quote

 

Putin warns NATO against closer ties with Ukraine and Georgia

July 19, 2018 / 12:13 PM / 6 months ago
 

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday warned NATO against cultivating closer ties with Ukraine and Georgia, saying such a policy was irresponsible and would have unspecified consequences for the alliance.

 

The issue has been a source of anger for Russia — which shares a border with both countries and does not want to see them join what it regards as a hostile military bloc — since 2008 when NATO leaders promised Ukraine and Georgia they would one day join the alliance.

 

Putin, speaking to Russian diplomats from around the world assembled in Moscow, said on Thursday there was a need to restore trust in Europe and spoke out against what he said was NATO’s attempts to deploy new bases and military infrastructure near Russia’s borders.

 

“We will respond appropriately to such aggressive steps, which pose a direct threat to Russia,” said Putin.

 

It is.......without a doubt, one of Putin's core policies and part of his longtime goal towards reclaiming ex-Soviet states.

 

And now time to start getting into Ukrainian politics.

 

You notice how Lyovochkin is now under a newly formed political party just beginning since last year? It actually happened just a couple of months ago.

 

So let's visit Ukraine's main news source:

 

https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/ukraines-russia-friendly-opposition-splits-ahead-of-presidential-election.html

 

 

Quote

 

Ukraine’s Russia-friendly opposition splits ahead of presidential election

Published Nov. 20, 2018. Updated Nov. 20 2018 at 5:12 pm

 

The Opposition Bloc is the successor of the Party of Regions, the former ruling party that disbanded after its leader, then-President Viktor Yanukovych fled Ukraine in the EuroMaidan Revolution, an anti-government uprising, in February 2014. The former Party of Regions members, including Vilkul, Boyko, and Lyovochkin, formed the Opposition Bloc – a conservative party with the base in Ukraine’s eastern regions. The party doesn’t openly declare its pro-Russian stance, but manifests it in its activities.

 

The split in the Opposition Bloc puts an end to a months-long speculation about a possibility of a single presidential candidate from the pro-Russian forces in Ukraine.

 

The split is a political separation between two main camps inside the Opposition Bloc: the group of Boyko and Lyovochkin, and the group of lawmakers backed by the richest Ukrainian oligarch Rinat Akhmetov, the former sponsor of Yanukovych.

 

It also marks Boyko’s union with Viktor Medvedchuk, a pro-Russian Ukrainian politician and a personal friend of Russian President Vladimir Putin. Medvedchuk, who for years was a standalone power center in Ukraine’s political life, joined forces with Rabinovych’s Za Zhyttia in July. Boyko joined their group three months later.

 

Ukrainian political scientist Volodymyr Fesenko, the head of the Penta Center for Applied Political Studies, said that the pro-Russian opposition will now have at least two candidates run for presidency in the upcoming elections, which he reckons is no bad thing.


 

I........................................don't need to explain to you who Viktor Yanukovych is and how he's related to Putin, do I?:reg:

Edited by jehurey

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This back and forth is great, because Saucer went from someone who could generally...sort of...back up what he was saying in the politics thread, to full on Victimhood Vini mode where he sticks his fingers in his ears and employs the God of the Gaps defense.

 

"Well was Kilimnik acting as a Russian operative on that specific day that he tool that polling data? And did he hand it over to Vladimir Puting himself, directly, on a direct flight?!?!  CHECKMATE ATHEISTS!! :lemming: "

 

Kilimnik is a Russian operative.  There is nothing more to discuss.  Even Fox News is on my side on this one. 

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Can someone explain to me what Putin would do with that poll data that would be harmful to the US? Serious question.

 

In fact, I don't quite see what could Trump could do in collusion with Russia that would affect the voting process in any serious capacity. Let alone ensure his electoral victory. You'd think the only thing that matters are votes. 

 

What are people afraid of exactly? I don't quite understand it, or is it only to prove that Trump is a corrupted Pro Russian guy? 

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Just now, Ramza said:

Can someone explain to me what Putin would do with that poll data that would be harmful to the US? Serious question.

Target voters in swing states with propaganda via social media.  This was the intent of companies like Cambridge Analytica.

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Just now, McWicked said:

Target voters in swing states with propaganda via social media.  This was the intent of companies like Cambridge Analytica.

You can't target individual voters on the internet. Why would they need poll data for that? Nothing stop them from propagandizing in mass on the internet with or without that.

 

Hell, an electoral campaign is basically propaganda already. What's the difference?

 

Something like Hillary having her emails leaks is an obvious thing, but Russia targeting voters in swing states? That I don't get. Seems like a stupid tactic that could backfire on Trump harder than anything he can potentially get from it. Be more specific.

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GOP playbook: Use wedge issues like guns,

abortion, gay peopl, a dash a racism and religion to persuade idiots (usually non-college white males and evangelicals) that they’re just like them. Pass laws to give the rich more money and cause a crisis when your back is against the wall. Wash, rinse, and repeat. 

Edited by Ike

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3 hours ago, Ramza said:

Can someone explain to me what Putin would do with that poll data that would be harmful to the US? Serious question.

 

In fact, I don't quite see what could Trump could do in collusion with Russia that would affect the voting process in any serious capacity. Let alone ensure his electoral victory. You'd think the only thing that matters are votes. 

 

What are people afraid of exactly? I don't quite understand it, or is it only to prove that Trump is a corrupted Pro Russian guy? 

Target his Russian bots in certain regions of the country.

 

Start posting on social media sites in those locations so that people from that area may be influenced by it.  Because they can't hit all 50 states, and its be a completely inefficient endeavor to try and do so.

 

They'd also want updated polling to see if their tactics have been working. Because Russian bots is something they started doing well before 2016.

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