Hot Sauce 2,729 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, SheepKilla said: It sounds like something a high schooler would say. I used to believe the same myself when I was a teen. The logic went like: "I'm not rich, these rich people should give some of their money to me and my own" In reality taxing that guy making over $10 million won't do anything. It will just redistribute his money for political purposes (welfare programs, etc). These programs will be highly inefficient and drag down society more and more. I'm honestly at the point where I believe we should cut welfare down to $0 in funding. Watch how quickly the single mother culture would disappear after that. Economics at large cares little for idealized concepts of fairness. The biggest goal of progressive taxes and transfer payments (welfare) is economic stability on a macroeconomic level. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SheepKilla 473 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 25 minutes ago, Hot Sauce said: Economics at large cares little for idealized concepts of fairness. The biggest goal of progressive taxes and transfer payments (welfare) is economic stability on a macroeconomic level. Economic stability doesn't happen via mass welfare. All that is doing is transferring wealth to people at the very bottom, who are then squandering that wealth instead of buying smart things with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hot Sauce 2,729 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, SheepKilla said: Economic stability doesn't happen via mass welfare. Welfare absolutely assists in economic stability. Go read up on automatic stabilizers. 11 minutes ago, SheepKilla said: All that is doing is transferring wealth to people at the very bottom, who are then squandering that wealth instead of buying smart things with it. The percentage of consumption expenditure on necessities is significantly higher for poor people than it is for the rich. Your statement is the complete opposite of reality. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vini 430 Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 49 minutes ago, Hot Sauce said: Economics at large cares little for idealized concepts of fairness. The biggest goal of progressive taxes and transfer payments (welfare) is economic stability on a macroeconomic level. Economics does care about fairness in so far as it's a system that wants to protect itself from instability. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vini 430 Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hot Sauce said: Welfare absolutely assists in economic stability. Go read up on automatic stabilizers. The percentage of consumption expenditure on necessities is significantly higher for poor people than it is for the rich. Your statement is the complete opposite of reality. Welfare as a concept assists stability, welfare as instiuted in the American system is arguably detrimental to the longterm stability. The incentives are misaligned. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vini 430 Posted January 23, 2019 Author Share Posted January 23, 2019 One of the lessons of the 20th century is economic systems like Capitalism are a game that people CHOOSE to keep playing, not one that they are obligated to play. In order to keep the game worth playing you must have people happy at every level of the game. The poor need to be able to make ends meet by working full time without having ambitions of getting rich, the ambitious ones need to have upward mobility, the middle class needs to be working but also enjoying some spoils of their life and the rich need to be able to be frivolous and enjoy all the spoils. At no point does hoarding billions of dollars go into that equation. If you can't ball out and build a legacy with $100 million you're an asshole. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jehurey 3,230 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, SheepKilla said: We didn't have welfare programs for single mothers in 1950. We're in a different time. You have no argument. Your claim is "This happened in the past at some good, so it must be good to continue doing it and increase it". With no regard for subtleties of time, place, nor effect on society. As if all that matters is it happened one time, so it's therefore good - ignore all nuances. LOL Republicans actively go around saying that we should go back to the 1950's, completely unaware that the reason we could afford things like a National Highway System and Infrstructure projects was because of how we taxed the ultra-rich. The only person who doesn't have an argument is you. You really don't know shit about policy or history, do you? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SheepKilla 473 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, jehurey said: LOL Republicans actively go around saying that we should go back to the 1950's, completely unaware that the reason we could afford things like a National Highway System and Infrstructure projects was because of how we taxed the ultra-rich. The only person who doesn't have an argument is you. You really don't know shit about policy or history, do you? In those days, people taxed and used the money efficiently and effectively. For smart projects that would yield long-term benefits. Today, that money is going in the wrong places. It will destabilize this country in the long term. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SheepKilla 473 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Also, the 1950's prosperity had little to do with taxing the rich. It had to do with a natural economic boom after WW2 and the US becoming the leading superpower. If you take away each and every dollar from the rich, you will not cover this country's budget for even a month. Taxation is an imaginary answer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jehurey 3,230 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 26 minutes ago, SheepKilla said: In those days, people taxed and used the money efficiently and effectively. For smart projects that would yield long-term benefits. Today, that money is going in the wrong places. It will destabilize this country in the long term. Nope, you have absolutely no proof of this, nor would you have any examples. In the 1940's, we created Social Security, we created Unemployment Insurance. You are right about one thing. Corporate Welfare today is much, MUCH bigger than it was back in the 1950's. But that's not what you are complaining about.........you think this entire COUNTRY is being drained because "other people" are buying $30 worth of groceries with food stamps every week? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jehurey 3,230 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 26 minutes ago, SheepKilla said: Also, the 1950's prosperity had little to do with taxing the rich. It had to do with a natural economic boom after WW2 and the US becoming the leading superpower. If you take away each and every dollar from the rich, you will not cover this country's budget for even a month. Taxation is an imaginary answer. Ah.........so globalism. Congrats on just completely demolishing your entire alt-right foundation, right there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SheepKilla 473 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Just now, jehurey said: Ah.........so globalism. Congrats on just completely demolishing your entire alt-right foundation, right there. "Globalism" without immigration waves and without foreign influence. That's not globalism. Globalism started in the early 2000s and has recently accelerated. 4 minutes ago, jehurey said: But that's not what you are complaining about.........you think this entire COUNTRY is being drained because "other people" are buying $30 worth of groceries with food stamps every week? I have personal experience of an immigrant in my city whose family owned 2 mercedes and who was also receiving large amounts of welfare/food stamps. You are basing your characterizations on caricatures. The humble Mexican lady with $30 in groceries every week isn't real. The stories are everywhere. This aid is severely abused. And you neglect to comment on the social effects. You are ok with this net supporting single motherhood? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DynamiteCop 2,085 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) I agree with her out of morality but absolutely nothing else, it would cause economic and innovative disaster. These people would simply leave the US, it would prevent things like Amazon or Microsoft from existing or even being created, it would drive aware entrepreneurs, inventors and industry. Alexandria Ocasio Cortez is a moron, if you want to make other countries far superior to the US and essentially bankrupt us over night then please lobby for these ideals. This girl has no concept as to how the world works, she doesn't understand where money comes from. Edited January 23, 2019 by DynamiteCop! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. House 3,371 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Goukosan said: your entire country is poor bro Belgium is poor? LOL Lol I'm sure bhytre would prefer living in one of the many US overcrowded, crime infested cities of the US. Where do you live? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jehurey 3,230 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 25 minutes ago, SheepKilla said: "Globalism" without immigration waves and without foreign influence. That's not globalism. Globalism started in the early 2000s and has recently accelerated. I have personal experience of an immigrant in my city whose family owned 2 mercedes and who was also receiving large amounts of welfare/food stamps. You are basing your characterizations on caricatures. The humble Mexican lady with $30 in groceries every week isn't real. The stories are everywhere. This aid is severely abused. And you neglect to comment on the social effects. You are ok with this net supporting single motherhood? Riiiiight. All of those Jews, Germans, Italians, Polish, Irish people came to the United States JUST RECENTLY in the early 2000's. The Godfather is a movie from 2006, apparently. There's a good chance that you really are just dumb at piecing together information, and your xenophobia makes you come to stupid conclusions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jehurey 3,230 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 19 minutes ago, DynamiteCop! said: I agree with her out of morality but absolutely nothing else, it would cause economic and innovative disaster. These people would simply leave the US, it would prevent things like Amazon or Microsoft from existing or even being created, it would drive aware entrepreneurs, inventors and industry. No. It. Wouldn't. If Amazon or Microsoft make a single monetary transaction as a business WITHIN THE UNITED STATES, they have to have a place of business within the United States. They would pay taxes, no matter what. If a rich person RECEIVES THEIR INCOME FROM THE UNITED STATES...........they pay US income taxes. There is no way around that. You don't know what you are talking about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SheepKilla 473 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Just now, jehurey said: Riiiiight. All of those Jews, Germans, Italians, Polish, Irish people came to the United States JUST RECENTLY in the early 2000's. The Godfather is a movie from 2006, apparently. There's a good chance that you really are just dumb at piecing together information, and your xenophobia makes you come to stupid conclusions. Many of those people came far before the 1950's. And when they came there was tight control along the way - far more than today. And NOT ONE of these people received welfare benefits. They were pretty much thrown onto the street and they worked themselves and their families up. Your narrative is completely skewed because you don't want to see the situation for what it is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Goukosan 2,252 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ramza said: Belgium is poor? LOL Lol I'm sure bhytre would prefer living in one of the many US overcrowded, crime infested cities of the US. Where do you live? I live in the greatest city on earth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SheepKilla 473 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Also, since the 1950's, 40's, 30's, 20's, and 10's suddenly became a mythical bastion of globalist multiculturalism to support your argument... Do you have ANY idea what they would have done in those days at the slightest hint of anti-nationalism or saying you hate whites, this country is racist/bad, etc? You'd be arrested, put in jail, and sent home. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DynamiteCop 2,085 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 16 minutes ago, jehurey said: No. It. Wouldn't. If Amazon or Microsoft make a single monetary transaction as a business WITHIN THE UNITED STATES, they have to have a place of business within the United States. They would pay taxes, no matter what. If a rich person RECEIVES THEIR INCOME FROM THE UNITED STATES...........they pay US income taxes. There is no way around that. You don't know what you are talking about. Yeah, unless they uproot their fucking business and themselves and leave the United States Dumbass Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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