Phil Spencer Live with Giantbomb

[madmaltese★ 2,548]

Just now, DynamiteCop! said:

They could add more CU's, more memory, faster memory, a faster CPU, engineer better cooling and overclock everything.

 

There's a lot that could be done in the next year. Why would you think there are devkits out? Similar PC development hardware already exists and games can be built entirely agnostic of a final platform or specification. 

Again, I'm not arguing that the specs are final, I'm saying there are definitely devkits out. 

 

Because devkits are always out within this time period prior to a new generation to first party and major 3rd party. They need to know more specific information than a rough guess. Games are now gearing into the final phases of development before the actual stage of just polish and bug fixes. You can't even prototype a game properly without at least having some idea of the CPU and GPU. You seriously talk like you think every game is a set of sliders that can just be slide up and down depending on specs. 

[DynamiteCop 2,084]

6 minutes ago, madmaltese said:

Again, I'm not arguing that the specs are final, I'm saying there are definitely devkits out. 

 

Because devkits are always out within this time period prior to a new generation to first party and major 3rd party. They need to know more specific information than a rough guess. Games are now gearing into the final phases of development before the actual stage of just polish and bug fixes. You can't even prototype a game properly without at least having some idea of the CPU and GPU. You seriously talk like you think every game is a set of sliders that can just be slide up and down depending on specs. 

They already know what to expect out of Zen2, Navi, GDDR6, high speed SSD's etc. You do realize that developer samples exist right? They've had their hands on this stuff for months.. I know a guy who has Zen2 developer samples right now... They don't need a middleware device to build their next-generation projects. When they do get the devkits they can then deploy their code and see how it runs, debug and iterate over, and over and over again until they meet their targets. 

 

A devkit is just a glorified testing and porting machine, not a game development platform, all of that is done on PC's. We haven't been in an age where that was a reality in nearly 20 years. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by DynamiteCop!

[madmaltese★ 2,548]

8 minutes ago, DynamiteCop! said:

They already know what to expect out of Zen2, Navi, GDDR6, high speed SSD's etc. They don't need a middleware device to build their next-generation projects. When they do get the devkits they can then deploy their code and see how it runs, debug and iterate over, and over and over again until they meet their targets. 

 

A devkit is just a glorified testing and porting machine, not a game development platform, all of that is done on PC's. We haven't been in an age where that was a reality in nearly 20 years. 

And how late do you think developers want to do that? That being, deploying their code, debugging and possibly having to fix large part of there games to fix the consoles? Nearly ever dev ever has said every game making process is about continually cutting to fit the is realistic on a system. We are 1.5 years out only. Again there is no doubt devkits are out now. First party would've prob had them last year and major 3rd party either that time too or early this year at the absolute latest. You seem to think the dev cycle is a lot easier than it is. 

Activision have one of the fastest dev cycles with their 3 year COD cycles between devs. They'd already be well into their cross gen COD and started heavily their next gen exclusive COD and you think Activision doesn't have a Sony and MS devkit lol.

 

Devkits go out early. Final specs then can get slightly tweaked to make negligible changes to developers. This isn't a new thing

 

 

[DynamiteCop 2,084]

2 minutes ago, madmaltese said:

And how late do you think developers want to do that? That being, deploying their code, debugging and possibly having to fix large part of there games to fix the consoles? Nearly ever dev ever has said every game making process is about continually cutting to fit the is realistic on a system. We are 1.5 years out only. Again there is no doubt devkits are out now. First party would've prob had them last year and major 3rd party either that time too or early this year at the absolute latest. You seem to think the dev cycle is a lot easier than it is. 

Activision have one of the fastest dev cycles with their 3 year COD cycles between devs. They'd already be well into their cross gen COD and started heavily their next gen exclusive COD and you think Activision doesn't have a Sony and MS devkit lol.

 

Devkits go out early. Final specs then can get slightly tweaked to make negligible changes to developers. This isn't a new thing

 

 

They managed just fine with the X getting the devkit 6 months before release. We're 18 months out man, they're still building. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by DynamiteCop!

[madmaltese★ 2,548]

Just now, DynamiteCop! said:

They managed just fine with the X getting the devkit  6 months before release. We're 18 months out man, they're still building. 

Stop comparing the X (or Pro) to new generations where they literally just patch their games to enhance an already developed game. Most devs didn't even start working on X/Pro updates till the system was out. It's a dumbass comparison.

It is a completely different thing to developing an entire new game exclusively to a new generation which takes years to do.

[DynamiteCop 2,084]

14 minutes ago, madmaltese said:

Stop comparing the X (or Pro) to new generations where they literally just patch their games to enhance an already developed game. Most devs didn't even start working on X/Pro updates till the system was out. It's a dumbass comparison.

It is a completely different thing to developing an entire new game exclusively to a new generation which takes years to do.

It's literally no different, they have to debug, test and port their code to these platforms all the same. The Xbox One X isn't even really an Xbox One but in name, by all accounts it's a 'next-gen' console which they've configured to run Xbox One code. "Unpatched" Xbox One games are literally running as backward compatible software.

 

The builds of games that run on the X they couldn't run on the Xbox One, not because of a compute issue but a compatibiltity issue. It would be near identical to trying to run an Xbox One game on the PlayStation 4, you'd have to port it. 

 

The same applies here, for that X build to work on a base system you would have to port it back. The Xbox One and the X are two completely different platforms masquerading as being the same. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by DynamiteCop!

[madmaltese★ 2,548]

If you seriously think it no different then there is nothing to really continue discussing cause you're delusional.

 

The X's (and Pro's) specs were literally irrelevant. All they mattered for was pushing resolution and possibly framerate. It didn't effect a single game that was already released or in development. All work on Pro/X patches could happen after release. It didn't impact a single upcoming game significantly cause neither the Pro or X have any exclusive game whatsoever. It's just current gen games with higher resolutions. 

It's why cross gen games are the least impressive next gen games, cause they are just nicer looking current gen titles. As opposed to exclusive next gen game that not only look better but quite possibly have systems in the game that simply wouldn't be possible on previous gens, whether that be AI, in game loading, amount of enemies/ppl a game can render, gameplay functions, etc. 

 

 

[DynamiteCop 2,084]

11 minutes ago, madmaltese said:

If you seriously think it no different then there is nothing to really continue discussing cause you're delusional.

 

The X's (and Pro's) specs were literally irrelevant. All they mattered for was pushing resolution and possibly framerate. It didn't effect a single game that was already released or in development. All work on Pro/X patches could happen after release. It didn't impact a single upcoming game significantly cause neither the Pro or X have any exclusive game whatsoever. It's just current gen games with higher resolutions. 

It's why cross gen games are the least impressive next gen games, cause they are just nicer looking current gen titles. As opposed to exclusive next gen game that not only look better but quite possibly have systems in the game that simply wouldn't be possible on previous gens, whether that be AI, in game loading, amount of enemies/ppl a game can render, gameplay functions, etc. 

 

 

Of course it affected the trajectory of games, Forza Horizon 4 is a clear example of that. The games which use high resolution textures and leverage the additional memory and power to push graphical features not possible on the base system are a clear example of that. The fact is the X stands to the same degree that an entirely different platform does, all of the above has to be done on it for games to work on it. Forza Horizon 4 was built around the X, and it shows.

 

If it was just the Xbox One in the pipeline the degree to which they had scaled their efforts would have been a lower ceiling. 

[jehurey 3,222]

1 minute ago, DynamiteCop! said:

Of course it affected the trajectory of games, Forza Horizon 4 is a clear example of that. The games which use high resolution textures and leverage the additional memory and power to push graphical features not possible on the base system are a clear example of that. The fact is the X stands to the same degree that an entirely different platform does, all of the above has to be done on it for games to work on it. Forza Horizon 4 was built around the X, and it shows.

 

If it was just the Xbox One in the pipeline the degree to which they had scaled their efforts would have been a lower ceiling. 

No, they would've needed to create those higher-res textures and more graphical effects for the PC version.

 

LOL, its not a debate when it comes to PC versus Xbox One X userbase, PC trounces it.

[Remij 4,666]

2 hours ago, DynamiteCop! said:

LMAO @Remij_ shot down about 360 games on PC

 

"We'd stream them before we tackle any kind of native function"

 

 

This is beautiful!

Eh, they probably feel they have to have SOME thing exclusive for console owners.  Nobody really cares... they'll be emulated anyway  

[DynamiteCop 2,084]

Just now, Remij_ said:

Eh, they probably feel they have to have SOME thing exclusive for console owners.  Nobody really cares... they'll be emulated anyway  

Oh he also shot down the Switch in that interview, I figured you might want to know that too. Jeff pressed him about it directly and he just basically said we have too much going on to think about that.

 

[Remij 4,666]

1 minute ago, DynamiteCop! said:

Oh he also shot down the Switch in that interview, I figured you might want to know that too. Jeff pressed him about it directly and he just basically said we have too much going on to think about that.

 

It's such a relatively small market compared to the actual market to which the technology makes sense.

 

People like Jehurey and Aza were talking like as if MS' whole cloud future depended on whether or not Nintendo let them partner with them  

[DynamiteCop 2,084]

Just now, Remij_ said:

It's such a relatively small market compared to the actual market to which the technology makes sense.

 

People like Jehurey and Aza were talking like as if MS' whole cloud future depended on whether or not Nintendo let them partner with them  

They don't give a rats ass about Nintendo, they'll do some things here or there but it's just a PR front to gain goodwill. It's smart but what these clowns were expecting was a joke which is why I scoffed at it vehemently.