Best explaination of why Hideo Kojima is an absolute joke when it comes to his storytelling

[HolyAx 297]

Kojimas writing is on the same level as Tetsuya Nomura - middle-school level.

[jehurey 3,222]

2 hours ago, Ramza said:

Every cutscenes are godly.

 

Some of the silly codec conversations can be whack at times but that's about it. Everything else is god tier.

Found one of the very first listings on youtube when I searched for "MGS3 Boss cutscene"

 

This is the first video that was just one cutscene, instead of them combining cutscenes.

 

15 seconds in................Snake realizes there's a horse 20 feet directly to his right.

 

35 seconds in............somebody speaks to Snake, which means they ALREADY HAVE THE DROP on Snake......but you're treated to a "Snake is so badass" moment in which he pulls a gun out and turns around. In real life, the other person would've fired 3 shots by then.

 

60 seconds in............I stopped watching the video, and if you don't know why, then don't ever try to lecture anybody on the topic of good storytelling ever again.

 

 

 

Its very simple..............its just fucking anime.

Edited December 5, 2019 by jehurey

[Playstation Tablet 1,723]

1 hour ago, jehurey said:

Found one of the very first listings on youtube when I searched for "MGS3 Boss cutscene"

 

This is the first video that was just one cutscene, instead of them combining cutscenes.

 

15 seconds in................Snake realizes there's a horse 20 feet directly to his right.

 

35 seconds in............somebody speaks to Snake, which means they ALREADY HAVE THE DROP on Snake......but you're treated to a "Snake is so badass" moment in which he pulls a gun out and turns around. In real life, the other person would've fired 3 shots by then.

 

60 seconds in............I stopped watching the video, and if you don't know why, then don't ever try to lecture anybody on the topic of good storytelling ever again.

 

 

 

Its very simple..............its just fucking anime.

I don't get it. You're a Nintendo fan. Almost all their stories are literally anime as well. Why the hate.

[Mr. House 3,371]

4 hours ago, jehurey said:

Found one of the very first listings on youtube when I searched for "MGS3 Boss cutscene"

 

This is the first video that was just one cutscene, instead of them combining cutscenes.

 

15 seconds in................Snake realizes there's a horse 20 feet directly to his right.

 

35 seconds in............somebody speaks to Snake, which means they ALREADY HAVE THE DROP on Snake......but you're treated to a "Snake is so badass" moment in which he pulls a gun out and turns around. In real life, the other person would've fired 3 shots by then.

 

60 seconds in............I stopped watching the video, and if you don't know why, then don't ever try to lecture anybody on the topic of good storytelling ever again.

 

 

 

Its very simple..............its just fucking anime.

You're complaining about the cinematography of a 2003 PS2 game in details? Lmfao.

[jehurey 3,222]

6 hours ago, Team 2019 said:

I don't get it. You're a Nintendo fan. Almost all their stories are literally anime as well. Why the hate.

Do you see me going around calling Shigeru Miyamoto or Eiji Auonuma masterful storytellers?

 

Sounds like you didn't know how to respond so you tried the "Make fun of Nintendo" move.

 

It wasn't very effective.

 

3 hours ago, Ramza said:

You're complaining about the cinematography of a 2003 PS2 game in details? Lmfao.

Wow. So you don't even know what storytelling is in this visual medium...........and you inaccurately classified it as "cinematography". LOL

 

Boss speaking to Snake means that she has successfully sneaked up on Snake, she has the drop on him. That is the visual and audio information that is conveyed to us.

 

This is corroborated again by Snake having a stunned face when the camera angle changes to show his face.

 

That's visual storytelling.......and Kojima proceeds to botch it like an amateur. Snake is in a position of weakness, he should be portrayed as WEAK in that moment.  If he turns around and points a gun, its because Boss ALLOWS THAT to happen. (This makes me think that Boss must be some sort of mega-badass, and knows Snake, quite possibly knows Snakes moves to know what he would do next, and she allows it to happen, this tells me quite a bit about Boss).

 

Therefore that moment should be done with Snake turning around and pointing a gun in an un-glamorous fashion.

 

Instead, Kojima does that slow-mo shit to make it look like that Snake is doing some badass move. He completely throws out everything he's built up there. In a live-action movie, that would be absolutely cringe-worthy.  You would instinctively know that it feels off.

 

But shit like this is common in anime.

[Mr. House 3,371]

Yes everything you are talking about is cinematography and directing. And you are being nitpicky as fuck about a 16 years old PS2 game. I don't think anyone is comparing Kojima to Stanley Kubrick or Alfred Hitchcock here.

 

MGS1 still has one of the best story in the series, yet the cutscenes direction is nothing to brag about and mostly made to look cool, at least the presentation was ahead of any other games at the time, which is what matters.

 

If you think the stories are bad because of the directing then yeah, knock yourself out but you're missing the bigger picture and sound like a complete nitpicky douche. I mean %50 of the story are told through freaking codec convos with two static images... 

 

 

[MalaXmaS 646]

MGS2>>>>>>>>>>>MGS3

MGS2 was the right kind of game, full of plot twists, great characters and an amazing feeling of epicness.

MGS3 was bland.

[Mr. House 3,371]

3 minutes ago, MalaXmaS said:

 

MGS3 was bland.

[kaz 2,439]

I prefer 2 over snake eater  

 

MGS1 -> MGS2 -> MGS3.  4 and 5 are trash

[jehurey 3,222]

1 hour ago, Ramza said:

Yes everything you are talking about is cinematography and directing. And you are being nitpicky as fuck about a 16 years old PS2 game. I don't think anyone is comparing Kojima to Stanley Kubrick or Alfred Hitchcock here.

 

MGS1 still has one of the best story in the series, yet the cutscenes direction is nothing to brag about and mostly made to look cool, at least the presentation was ahead of any other games at the time, which is what matters.

 

If you think the stories are bad because of the directing then yeah, knock yourself out but you're missing the bigger picture and sound like a complete nitpicky douche. I mean %50 of the story are told through freaking codec convos with two static images... 

 

 

LOL, moving the goalpost.

 

A director oversees visual storytelling by how everything moves on screen.

 

Its not nitpicky............if you think the only storytelling is derived from spoken dialogue.........you simply aren't credible on this subject. The whole point about the visual medium of movies is that you can convey narrative information with AND without dialogue because the scene provides so much more information in 1 second than a book can provide in 1 paragraph.

 

The story IS bad.

 

MGS1 has 'the best story"?  Probably because its the SIMPLEST one that has the least amount of bullshit.

 

The thing is that alot of people here subconsciously set their brains to another standard when playing a video game.

 

"Great story" in a video game is not the same as "Great story" in a movie.

 

I'll give you another example. This scene is from Mission Impossible 4..........a fucking popcorn movie that will never win criticial acclaim for its story.

 

The dialogue in this scene, and the execution of the dialogue, and the themes that this piece of dialogue is talking about exceed anything that Kojima has written or directed:

 

Quote

[Arms dealer is leaning against a car, acting like he doesn't care]

 

[AD]: "Whatever arrangements you made with my cousin is between you and him. If you want something from me, you will pay."

 

[Ethan Hunt]: "You misunderstand. I'm not buying. I'm selling."

 

[AD]: "You selling?" [Light chuckle] "Selling what?"

 

[EH]: "The future."

 

[AD, Dismissively] "Ahhh. I got all I need. Thank you."

 

[EH]: "Our countries are on the brink of war."

 

[AD]: "War is very good for business"

 

[EH]: "Nuclear war?"

 

[Arms dealer pauses, shifts nervously, and finally stands up straight]

 

Quote

[Ethan Hunt]: "He has [a nuclear] case. He has codes. But they're worthless without a tactical satellite. I want to know where'd he get it."

 

[Arms Dealer]: "A man with information like that would be a potential terrorist" [pauses and speaks slower] "And to your government....a potential terrorist is a terrorist."

That last line is better and more profound and more believable than anything Kojima has ever written, and performed better than anything Kojima ever directed. And it came from a slightly-above average Summer action movie.

Edited December 5, 2019 by jehurey

[kaz 2,439]

good luck winning an argument with jerry over who has the better taste

[Remij 4,667]

MGS3 has an amazing story.  

 

Kojima  

[Mr. House 3,371]

6 hours ago, jehurey said:

LOL, moving the goalpost.

 

A director oversees visual storytelling by how everything moves on screen.

 

Its not nitpicky............if you think the only storytelling is derived from spoken dialogue.........you simply aren't credible on this subject. The whole point about the visual medium of movies is that you can convey narrative information with AND without dialogue because the scene provides so much more information in 1 second than a book can provide in 1 paragraph.

 

The story IS bad.

 

MGS1 has 'the best story"?  Probably because its the SIMPLEST one that has the least amount of bullshit.

 

The thing is that alot of people here subconsciously set their brains to another standard when playing a video game.

 

"Great story" in a video game is not the same as "Great story" in a movie.

 

I'll give you another example. This scene is from Mission Impossible 4..........a fucking popcorn movie that will never win criticial acclaim for its story.

 

The dialogue in this scene, and the execution of the dialogue, and the themes that this piece of dialogue is talking about exceed anything that Kojima has written or directed:

 

Shut the fuck up.  Some of the best stories in gaming comes from game with very basic visuals feedback. Phoenix Wright or Chrono Trigger? Amazing stuff from games with very basic visuals cues and presentation, not even any voice acting. Vampire The masquerade Bloodlines? Brilliant writing, a bunch of NPCs talking to you in your face with basics animations and awful cutscenes. You need to drop the ridiculous movies standards, especially with old ass games.

 

And MGS1 doesn't have the best story, or the least amount of bullshit. MGS3 does, it's what I'm trying to tell you here. Just play MGS3 HD Remaster on PS3 and thank me later. I understand hating on Kojima for being overrated when you never played 3. Do yourself a favor, man. You're 16 years late on this and I'd still recommend it strongly, it really is his best work, 4 and 5 are pretentious garbage. But if you can't enjoy 1 or 3 you have serious deep issues and no games will ever please you.

 

I'm done here, play the game or shut up.

 

 

[Twinblade★ 3,889]

Lmao wtf is Jehurey smoking.

[lynux3 2,043]

 

[jehurey 3,222]

1 hour ago, Ramza said:

Shut the fuck up.  Some of the best stories in gaming comes from game with very basic visuals feedback. Phoenix Wright or Chrono Trigger? Amazing stuff from games with very basic visuals cues and presentation, not even any voice acting. Vampire The masquerade Bloodlines? Brilliant writing, a bunch of NPCs talking to you in your face with basics animations and awful cutscenes. You need to drop the ridiculous movies standards, especially with old ass games.

 

And MGS1 doesn't have the best story, or the least amount of bullshit. MGS3 does, it's what I'm trying to tell you here. Just play MGS3 HD Remaster on PS3 and thank me later. I understand hating on Kojima for being overrated when you never played 3. Do yourself a favor, man. You're 16 years late on this and I'd still recommend it strongly, it really is his best work, 4 and 5 are pretentious garbage. But if you can't enjoy 1 or 3 you have serious deep issues and no games will ever please you.

 

I'm done here, play the game or shut up.

 

 

LOL, I have no doubt that RPG writers are BETTER than Hideo Kojima.

 

Those a dialogue RPGs.......those are closer to visual novels. Phoenix Wright IS a visual novel, its a comic book. Its entertaining and whimsical.

 

Hideo Kojima is attempting CINEMATIC storytelling.

 

He's embarrassing. The fact that you think he is THE BEST that the video game industry has to offer........makes me feel embarrassed for the video game industry.

 

Hideo Kojima looks like he watched VHS tapes of James Bond, Rambo, Dune, and Terminator in the 80's, and simply copped elements from them.

 

.........because that's exactly what he did. That's what lower-tier anime usually consist of.

 

[claims that Kojima is a masterful storyteller]

 

[spends rest of the thread never bringing up anything from a kojima game, and actually uses OTHER games from OTHER creators in OTHER genres as examples]

Edited December 6, 2019 by jehurey

[Mr. House 3,371]

15 hours ago, jehurey said:

 

[claims that Kojima is a masterful storyteller]

 

[spends rest of the thread never bringing up anything from a kojima game, and actually uses OTHER games from OTHER creators in OTHER genres as examples]

No dumbass, I'm pointing out that not everything is about cinematic directing in video games. Maybe pay attention to the actual story, characters and drama when you'll play MGS3 instead of sounding like a complete douche with unrealistic standards.

 

And either you like it or not Kojima was the best at cinematic storytelling at the time. You'd be hard pressed to find any other games with better cutscenes than MGS3 at it's respective time of release, in 2004 on the freaking PS2.

 

I'm just pointing out facts.

[jehurey 3,222]

Quote

The fact that you think he is THE BEST that the video game industry has to offer........makes me feel embarrassed for the video game industry.

 

[Mr. House 3,371]

3 hours ago, jehurey said:

 

I don't think he's the best. But find me any 2004 game or prior on the level of MGS3 cutscenes. I'll wait.

[James Skywalker 528]

13 minutes ago, Ramza said:

I don't think he's the best. But find me any 2004 game or prior on the level of MGS3 cutscenes. I'll wait.

Cut scenes? Something that's better than nothing? 

 

If the scenes are cut, why are they in the game? 

Edited December 7, 2019 by Optimus Jim