Sony's SSD

[Playstation Tablet 1,722]

The point is X had a very high end SSD if we're being real even noting PS5's spec. A year ago we could only dream of SSDs we were expecting HDDs FFS not monster SSDs.

 

Dynamite is in for a dissapoint if he thinks 16 percent GPU advantage is some sort of being game changer.

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by Team 2019

[lynux3 2,043]

18 minutes ago, Team 2019 said:

The point is X had a very high end SSD if we're being real even noting PS5's spec. A year ago we could only dream of SSDs we were expecting HDDs FFS not monster SSDs.

 

Dynamite is in for a dissapoint if he thinks 16 percent GPU advantage is some sort of being game changer.

 

There's a bigger gap between PS4 Pro and Xbox One X... and there's been plenty of examples of PS4 Pro having some advantages.   It's not just about the power of a console, it's also about the environment in which games are developed for these consoles. It's been said time and time again that PlayStation's development tools are superior to Xbox.

[Remij 4,666]

5 minutes ago, lynux3 said:

There's a bigger gap between PS4 Pro and Xbox One X... and there's been plenty of examples of PS4 Pro having some advantages.   It's not just about the power of a console, it's also about the environment in which games are developed for these consoles. It's been said time and time again that PlayStation's development tools are superior to Xbox.

Yea, and even taking into account that.. the PS5's higher clock frequencies could offset a chunk of that TF advantage, by increasing the speeds of other functions within the GPU.

 

We really don't know how it will all play out in the end.. but it's looking like they're both extremely comparable overall.  One is slow and wide, the other narrow and fast.

 

It's actually a good thing that there's a appreciable difference with regards to how each manufacturer designed the console.  Some games could be better suited to PS5's architecture, and others to Series X's architecture.  What that means is that comparisons will be more interesting on a per game basis... and it'll also give us the chance to learn more about which design philosophy was superior.

 

I'm gonna just throw in a personal thought I had too.. which is that maybe with the vanilla consoles, the Series X will have the advantage... but maybe if PRO consoles release in 3 years from now, Sony will have the advantage because they could massively boost compute/memory bandwidth performance, and still rely on having the faster SSD as a baseline.

 

It's gonna be interesting  

[lynux3 2,043]

6 minutes ago, Remij_ said:

Yea, and even taking into account that.. the PS5's higher clock frequencies could offset a chunk of that TF advantage, by increasing the speeds of other functions within the GPU.

 

We really don't know how it will all play out in the end.. but it's looking like they're both extremely comparable overall.  One is slow and wide, the other narrow and fast.

 

It's actually a good thing that there's a appreciable difference with regards to how each manufacturer designed the console.  Some games could be better suited to PS5's architecture, and others to Series X's architecture.  What that means is that comparisons will be more interesting on a per game basis... and it'll also give us the chance to learn more about which design philosophy was superior.

 

I'm gonna just throw in a personal thought I had too.. which is that maybe with the vanilla consoles, the Series X will have the advantage... but maybe if PRO consoles release in 3 years from now, Sony will have the advantage because they could massively boost compute/memory bandwidth performance, and still rely on having the faster SSD as a baseline.

 

It's gonna be interesting  

With both being based on RDNA 2 I can't see higher variable clock speed taking away the TF advantage; however, I don't think the TF advantage is going to be meaningfully significant. The Xbox Series X has guaranteed power with more hardware.

 

At the end of the day Xbox Series X is going to be the one with that cleaner reflection or extra blades of grass or 38974289 extra pixels or whatever.

 

I agree about the differences. It's always awesome to see two completely different teams pushing their design philosophies and demonstrating that to the hundreds of studios that will ultimately be designing their new games around it. It's exciting for sure. The games are just going to be...  

 

With your thoughts established there I feel like maybe a Pro console won't be a thing this time around, but then again I never expected a PS4 Pro after PS4 launched. I've seen a lot of developers lately claiming they haven't even tapped the potential of current generation systems, raw power seeing diminishing returns because the power to time/money/developer ratio is being exceeded. Basically you need a shit ton of time, money and seasoned developers to realize the full potential. If there is a Pro what would be the difference exactly? More compute to offset current differences? Better RT implementation? Obviously there's always room for more, but if we go by this generation One X is Microsoft's Pro console and they're releasing Series X so does that mean Microsoft isn't going to make a Pro console in the next 3-4 years?

 

I'm ready to see the games.  

[Remij 4,666]

23 minutes ago, lynux3 said:

With your thoughts established there I feel like maybe a Pro console won't be a thing this time around, but then again I never expected a PS4 Pro after PS4 launched. I've seen a lot of developers lately claiming they haven't even tapped the potential of current generation systems, raw power seeing diminishing returns because the power to time/money/developer ratio is being exceeded. Basically you need a shit ton of time, money and seasoned developers to realize the full potential. If there is a Pro what would be the difference exactly? More compute to offset current differences? Better RT implementation? Obviously there's always room for more, but if we go by this generation One X is Microsoft's Pro console and they're releasing Series X so does that mean Microsoft isn't going to make a Pro console in the next 3-4 years?

 

I'm ready to see the games.  

Yea..  I kinda feel the same way.  It's hard to say what will happen.

[Playstation Tablet 1,722]

If Lockhart isn't announced in the next 3 months, it's cancelled imo.

 

Also Sony's design seems to be made with a PS5 Pro in mind. It's easy to double 36 CUs counts.

 

Plus the CPU has a clear upgrade path this gen unlike Jaguar down the line, making 60fps much more realistic.

Edited March 20, 2020 by Team 2019

[Remij 4,666]

12 minutes ago, Team 2019 said:

If Lockhart isn't announced in the next 3 months, it's cancelled imo.

 

Also Sony's design seems to be made with a PS5 Pro in mind. It's easy to double 36 CUs counts.

 

Plus the CPU has a clear upgrade path this gen unlike Jaguar down the line, making 60fps much more realistic.

It's not cancelled.  Jez Corden just teased it the other day.

[Playstation Tablet 1,722]

1 hour ago, Remij_ said:

It's not cancelled.  Jez Corden just teased it the other day.

Should fuck Sony over and make them go 400 hopefully.

[Playstation Tablet 1,722]

This console war is lame tbh. Lemmings trying to argue a 16 percent GPU advantage is some huge difference. And cows are praying on faster SSD, when X already comes with a fast SSD as some magic game design differatior.

[Sublyminal 177]

35 minutes ago, Team 2019 said:

This console war is lame tbh. Lemmings trying to argue a 16 percent GPU advantage is some huge difference. And cows are praying on faster SSD, when X already comes with a fast SSD as some magic game design differatior.

The hard facts though are that the X will have to use the CPU/GPU for audio, while the V will have its own dedicated hardware SPU. Combined with the SSD, this is going to be an interesting gen, indeed. I'm curious as to the pricing though.

[JonDnD 2,606]

5 hours ago, Team 2019 said:

The point is X had a very high end SSD if we're being real even noting PS5's spec. A year ago we could only dream of SSDs we were expecting HDDs FFS not monster SSDs.

 

Dynamite is in for a dissapoint if he thinks 16 percent GPU advantage is some sort of being game changer.

 

You seem to think that's all it is 

 

GPU advantage 

CPU advantage 

Rt advantage 

 

Vs 

 

Ssd advantage 

[Remij 4,666]

Maybe a question we should start asking is exactly WHY MS opted to go with the SSD they did instead of something faster..

 

As I've said before... THOSE ARE SEQUENTIAL READ numbers.... NOT Random Reads...  In actual practice, both drives could be VERY SIMILAR performance-wise.

 

MS may have a theoretically slower drive... but PERHAPS they don't need to have that bandwidth to store the same amount of data in a similar amount of time????

 

 

MS's new I/O architecture may just have capabilities that Sony's doesn't...

Edited March 20, 2020 by Remij_

[jehurey 3,222]

9 minutes ago, JONBpc said:

You seem to think that's all it is 

 

GPU advantage 

CPU advantage 

Rt advantage 

 

Vs 

 

Ssd advantage 

CPU advantage? That's even more irrelevant.

 

Nobody will be developing a game in which running the game on a 3.5 GHz Zen 2 versus a 3.8GHz Zen 2 is going to make or break the game.

 

Ray tracing might be the only thing I'd see as a real advantage, but they had yet to show it off, and multiplat developers are still going to be developing it for the most common platform, which will be the Playstation.

 

Or, if Microsoft does come out with a lower-cost version, Lockhart, that will be even more limited in the ray tracing, so multiplat developers will cut down on their use of that feature even more, so the PS5 doesn't lose out at all.

[Remij 4,666]

3 minutes ago, jehurey said:

CPU advantage? That's even more irrelevant.

 

Nobody will be developing a game in which running the game on a 3.5 GHz Zen 2 versus a 3.8GHz Zen 2 is going to make or break the game.

 

Ray tracing might be the only thing I'd see as a real advantage, but they had yet to show it off, and multiplat developers are still going to be developing it for the most common platform, which will be the Playstation.

 

Or, if Microsoft does come out with a lower-cost version, Lockhart, that will be even more limited in the ray tracing, so multiplat developers will cut down on their use of that feature even more, so the PS5 doesn't lose out at all.

It's almost guaranteed that Sony's CPU will almost never run at 3.5GHz though.

 

Alex from Digital Foundry all but confirmed that developers have to choose between 2 modes.  One that either prioritizes the CPU, or one that prioritizes the GPU and gives full frequency to said component.  Basically he theorized that because the CPU gains are already going to be so massive over the previous gen, that developers will almost always opt to prioritize GPU frequencies over the CPU. 

 

I definitely agree with him if that's the case.  In which case we could be looking at ~600mhz.. which isn't exactly nothing.  You gotta remember that both of these consoles have dedicated silicon specifically for offloading workloads that would traditionally done on CPU threads... freeing up more performance for game logic and physics.

[JonDnD 2,606]

13 minutes ago, jehurey said:

CPU advantage? That's even more irrelevant.

 

Nobody will be developing a game in which running the game on a 3.5 GHz Zen 2 versus a 3.8GHz Zen 2 is going to make or break the game.

 

Ray tracing might be the only thing I'd see as a real advantage, but they had yet to show it off, and multiplat developers are still going to be developing it for the most common platform, which will be the Playstation.

 

Or, if Microsoft does come out with a lower-cost version, Lockhart, that will be even more limited in the ray tracing, so multiplat developers will cut down on their use of that feature even more, so the PS5 doesn't lose out at all.

Because you dont think it will matter means nothing.  Xsx has multiple advantages , Sony has 1 .

 

If the specs were flipped , you would be claiming ms box is a pos and you know it 

[Remij 4,666]

I mean... this right here is a FUCKING GAME CHANGER.

 

 

 

Of course... I was touting this long ago when Nvidia and MS announced it in the DirectX blog.  Texture space shading is also a part of this.

 

 

And I just want to say... I'm finding it hilarious that it really looks like MS, Nividia, and AMD on the PC side are all unifying their feature-set.  With DX12.. AMD is basically adhering to the spec that MS and Nvidia put out with RTX..  Literally EVERY feature...  DX12 Ultimate is essentially Nvidia, AMD, and MS coming together to push graphics ahead by uniting PC and Series X under a common development API.

[jehurey 3,222]

1 minute ago, JONBpc said:

Because you dont think it will matter means nothing.  Xsx has multiple advantages , Sony has 1 .

 

If the specs were flipped , you would be claiming ms box is a pos and you know it 

Do you even know of a multiplat game on PC that is currently taking advantage in the CPU area?

 

It'd have to be something like Rome Total War, those type of mass battle RTS games.

 

Don't get mad because I put your shoddy list into context.

 

The thing is that Sony's console has a feature that is going to allow the EXCLUSIVE games to catch alot of people's attention.

 

That is the type of stuff that wins a console war. So, even if multiplats don't fully utilize that SSD feature, the PS5 will still impress people and they will buy that console because they see it doing something that they don't see any where else.

[JonDnD 2,606]

9 minutes ago, jehurey said:

Do you even know of a multiplat game on PC that is currently taking advantage in the CPU area?

 

It'd have to be something like Rome Total War, those type of mass battle RTS games.

 

Don't get mad because I put your shoddy list into context.

 

The thing is that Sony's console has a feature that is going to allow the EXCLUSIVE games to catch alot of people's attention.

 

That is the type of stuff that wins a console war. So, even if multiplats don't fully utilize that SSD feature, the PS5 will still impress people and they will buy that console because they see it doing something that they don't see any where else.

Every pc game is taking advantage .

 

Xbox beats up ps5 in almost all areas . Get over it .

[Remij 4,666]

11 minutes ago, jehurey said:

Do you even know of a multiplat game on PC that is currently taking advantage in the CPU area?

 

It'd have to be something like Rome Total War, those type of mass battle RTS games.

 

Don't get mad because I put your shoddy list into context.

 

The thing is that Sony's console has a feature that is going to allow the EXCLUSIVE games to catch alot of people's attention.

 

That is the type of stuff that wins a console war. So, even if multiplats don't fully utilize that SSD feature, the PS5 will still impress people and they will buy that console because they see it doing something that they don't see any where else.

Anno 1800.  My GOD that game thrashes CPUs.

 

Will be so awesome to see what comes from DirectStorage and DX12 Ultimate on the PC side of things.  

[-GD-X★ 7,728]

ps5 got owned. there's no way to spin it. i'm sure sony first party devs will do some amazing stuff with the ps5, but the series x is the better system, in terms of power.