Is the push for diversity hurting gaming?

[Twinblade★ 3,898]

 

Not trying to get too political here, but I came across this video and thought it would make for an interesting topic. This is 343's studio head and she specifically talks about the studio's focus when it comes to diversity (not just in terms of the game design and their universe, but also their hiring decisions). The development team is apparently more diverse than ever before, but as we all know Halo Infinite has had the most problematic development of any Halo game so Im starting to wonder if theres a correlation there.

 

What do you guys think? Could prioritizing sex/race when hiring people instead of going after the most skilled person for the job potentially be having an effect on a game's development process?

[PuNKy_LeMmInG 172]

programming its doesnt matter as long as somebody can code, for art and story telling i can imagine its a benefit 🙂

[-GD-X★ 7,731]

i don't get why there's this sudden need for diversity, when it was already there. amy hennig is one of the most respected game directors and script writers over the last 20 years. jade raymond helped create the assassin's creed franchise. ashley in mass effect, a white character, was voiced by a black actress. 

[PuNKy_LeMmInG 172]

6 minutes ago, -GD-X said:

i don't get why there's this sudden need for diversity, when it was already there. amy hennig is one of the most respected game directors and script writers over the last 20 years. jade raymond helped create the assassin's creed franchise. ashley in mass effect, a white character, was voiced by a black actress. 

lol its virtue signalling 

[Literal Nazi Rudolf Hess 278]

I think there should be more of a focus on obesity rather than diversity. 

[kaz 2,439]

yea, I think movies, tv shows, games any kind of media really was always diverse. I mean granted we always had something like black people quota guys, like movies only having one black dude or gal but who cares.

 

and stereotypes for both male and female always existed. 

 

the thing is nobody cares and the crazies get way too much attention.

 

the worst is when woman cry about strong protagonists. suddenly everyone forgot about xena the tv show and her hot ass lesbian friend or tomb raider or etc etc etc etc

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by kaz

[Remij 4,670]

Diversity is amazing and everyone should welcome it.

 

But forced diversity, when it's glaringly apparent is just insulting.

 

But if I'm honest, I'm not really sure what I feel sometimes.  Sometimes I'll hear about some well known character having their race or gender changed, and I won't lie.. sometimes I think.. why do they have to fuck with everything?  Why not make new characters which are more diverse?  Why try to change what's already there, and potentially disappoint both sides.  In those cases sometimes I feel they're just pandering to groups to get sales.., and sometimes I think it must be patronizing to those races and cultures that maybe they feel like they're just some kind of quota that has to be met..  I do realize though, that it's not my place to say how they should feel about it.  The fact is that it's undeniable that representation matters.  And I'm sure they see the positive reception from those groups and in those cases, if a few from group A feel bad or upset so a few from group B can feel great and represented, well, then it's a positive thing.  I think a lot of how I feel about it depends on if I perceive it to be genuine or not.  Again, not that my opinion matters over anyone else's... but I can only perceive things from my viewpoint.

 

I really do think that diversity is great though.  [Spoilers for the game Celeste]

When it was revealed that Madeline from Celeste was Transgender, or at least strongly hinted before the developer confirmed it, the first thing I thought about was if it made sense that the character was Trans.  I went back and thought about the journey the character went on and all the interactions they had with other characters in the game, and then it just made perfect sense.  All the metaphorical imagery and design.  I thought regardless of whether the game was ever actually made with that intention (but obviously it was), or whether it was something the developer decided to do after the fact to help them come out easier, I thought it absolutely made perfect sense and actually made that game better.  I really liked how it was ambiguous enough that the story worked both ways.. like maybe you had a suspicion, but couldn't say one way or another.....up until the player completed the hardest challenges, and then it was revealed.  I thought that made the impact just that much more pronounced.

[/Spoilers]

 

Anyway, I think it can be fun, and I always like playing as both female/male characters, and all types of races.  The same thing all the time is boring.  I just don't care as much for the cases where it's obvious they're just throwing in a character here or there of a certain type of race or gender just to tick a box.  I think we can do better than that.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Remij

[jehurey 3,230]

Even if that were the case............why place the blame on Bonnie Ross?

 

Notice that we hear the name Bonnie Ross, Bonnie Ross, Bonnie Ross over and over when the agenda-driven people want to complain about this?

 

But they never once talk about the people who hired Bonnie Ross.

 

Like as if Bonnie Ross somehow slipped her way into there and demanded that she be the Halo boss and forced the Xbox Gaming Division to hire her, and forced them to create an entire marketing push on "diversity"

 

Also:

 

Quote

 

She worked on games such as Zoo Tycoon, Fuzion Frenzy, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Psychonauts, Gears of War, Alan Wake, and Crackdown in roles such as lead or executive producer, and studio head.^[3] She credited the variety of games as encouraging her to stay at Microsoft rather than moving to another company.^[6]

 

By 2005, Ross was a general manager for Microsoft Game Studios (now Xbox Game Studios).^[3] When Halo developer Bungie split from Microsoft in 2007, Microsoft created a new internal team to oversee the franchise. Ross recalled that her colleagues felt Halo was a waning property and looked at contracting an outside company to produce new games, but she argued differently.^[1][5] Ross had first become acquainted with the franchise through the tie-in novel Halo: The Fall of Reach; the deep backstory and universe appealed to her.^[5] Ross' pitch won over Microsoft Game Studios general manager Shane Kim, and she was put in charge of the new studio, 343 Industries.^[3]

 

Beginning in late 2007, 343 Industries started with roughly a dozen people,^[5] and Microsoft would ultimately hire staff from more than 55 different companies to work on their first major game, Halo 4.^[7] Bungie staffer Frank O'Connor assisted in the transition, and expected Ross would be an executive with no knowledge of Halo or its appeal. Instead, Ross impressed O'Connor with her deep knowledge of the franchise, and O'Connor quit Bungie to join 343 Industries as franchise director.^[1][8] Ross' vision for Halo also impressed Kiki Wolfkill, who joined the team as a studio head.^[8] During the transition, Ross worked with a company to interview Bungie staff and compile a centralized story bible for the universe, and they worked closely with Bungie on their last Halo projects, Halo 3: ODST and Reach.^[5]

 

Does anybody actually have any VALID REASON why should be the head of that studio? You guys know anybody with better resumes than what is listed up there?

 

Didn't people here just say recently that they LIKED Halo 4?

 

How is Halo Infinite's failure her fault exactly? She's not the one directing the game. Those people bailed. And its clearly obvious that Halo Infinite was supposed to be a last-gen title, and Microsoft had them move it over to next-gen.

[Remij 4,670]

Oh shit, not even going to lie, I just read the OP after typing all that out and realize you're talking more about the development team side of things. lol my bad... my post still stands though.

 

 

To that point, I'd say no.  Because some of the absolute best people in the fields are from diverse races and also women.

 

Watch a lot of making of's and development videos and you'll see..  Check out Artstations of various developers... oh fuck.  I couldn't imagine game development studios being mostly people from the same background, or just a bunch of males... you'd lose SO MUCH of what makes things interesting.

 

I think less diversity in development studios is what would really hurt the gaming.  You need different people with different perspectives to make things unique.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Remij

[jehurey 3,230]

1 minute ago, Remij said:

Oh shit, not even going to lie, I just read the OP after typing all that out and realize you're talking more about the development team side of things. lol my bad... my post still stands though.

 

 

To that point, I'd say no.  Because some of the absolute best people in the fields are from diverse races.

 

Watch a lot of making of's and development videos and you'll see..  Check out Artstations of various developers... oh fuck.  I couldn't imagine game development studios being mostly people from the same background, or just a bunch of males... you'd lose SO MUCH of what makes things interesting.

 

I think less diversity in development studios is what would really hurt the gaming.  You need different people with different perspectives to make things unique.

The Grand Theft Auto games, which satirizes American excess and violence and sex...........was entirely developed by Rockstar's Scotland studio.

 

Their perspective of America is probably what help make those games so over the top.

 

I mean.....in terms of graphics artists, why would you hire the same exactly type of artist? It would be a waste of resources. That's exactly where you should make an effort to hire a diverse group of people.

[102020393023445948594 2,223]

You can absolutely see the downward trend halo has been on since this clown took charge, from world leading #1 in industry game to a laughing stock joke/craig status. diversity absolutely destroyed both halo and gears to the point where both franchises are irrecoverable.

 

 

[Remij 4,670]

2 minutes ago, jehurey said:

The Grand Theft Auto games, which satirizes American excess and violence and sex...........was entirely developed by Rockstar's Scotland studio.

 

Their perspective of America is probably what help make those games so over the top.

 

I mean.....in terms of graphics artists, why would you hire the same exactly type of artist? It would be a waste of resources. That's exactly where you should make an effort to hire a diverse group of people.

Yea, I absolutely agree on all points.

 

It goes for every discipline.

[Cooke 2,026]

I don't care what race or background someone has. If they are best qualified for the job then they should be hired. If someone more qualified is denied a position because they don't fill a certain physical attribute quota then no I vehemently disagree. 

[Voidler 1,675]

The talent of people I've worked with has never been decided by gender or race. I've met a ton of talented women in my work

 

Im sure the gaming industry is filled to the brim with women who are very talented

 

Are diversity quotas filling up spaces with less talented people who fit a certain criteria? Who knows. I would theorise that there are more people than ever trying to break into the industry that is only getting smaller  in the amount of studios

 

The thing that irritates me is the necessity to try and make certain genres and game types into appealing to women. Fact is women like games but they are more likely to play a mobile game than a shooter. Just like many would prefer a romcom to an action movie. Why can't men just have their types of games that are aimed at them? We are at the point where games are getting bad reviews for targeting a male audience (eg Days Gone)

[Cell 421]

1 hour ago, Remij said:

Diversity is amazing and everyone should welcome it.

 

But forced diversity, when it's glaringly apparent is just insulting.

 

 

This. In general, things being blatantly politicized annoys the fuck out of me. A woman I work with told me today her teenage niece came home from school and told her there are now 48 types of gender and sexual orientation and you're a piece of shit if you don't acknowledge them.

 

I welcome diversity and could care less about people sexual orientation or gender, whatever it is, but some people are just running a mock with this shit. 

 

When I was a kid, I could never understand how my grand-parents generation where all racist as fuck generally, its genuinely brilliant we've stamped that out. But the way things are going, our grand-kids are going to think we're single minded pieces of shit for not seeing how they're all gender fluid non-binary demi-sexual's and so are there dogs and fuck you for not recognizing that. 

 

 

Edit: I know this thread is about gaming but w/e. 

 

Look at what happened to BF5.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Cell

[-GD-X★ 7,731]

33 minutes ago, Cell said:

 

This. In general, things being blatantly politicized annoys the fuck out of me. A woman I work with told me today her teenage niece came home from school and told her there are now 48 types of gender and sexual orientation and you're a piece of shit if you don't acknowledge them.

 

I welcome diversity and could care less about people sexual orientation or gender, whatever it is, but some people are just running a mock with this shit. 

 

When I was a kid, I could never understand how my grand-parents generation where all racist as fuck generally, its genuinely brilliant we've stamped that out. But the way things are going, our grand-kids are going to think we're single minded pieces of shit for not seeing how they're all gender fluid non-binary demi-sexual's and so are there dogs and fuck you for not recognizing that. 

 

 

Edit: I know this thread is about gaming but w/e. 

 

Look at what happened to BF5.

nah. only male, female, it, straight, gay and bi. i would love to curb stomp some "non binary" cunt. i hate that shit. 

[Cooke 2,026]

1 minute ago, -GD-X said:

nah. only male, female, it, straight, gay and bi. i would love to curb stomp some "non binary" cunt. i hate that shit. 

Non binary is when you're too chicken to chop off your dick and tits but still want to make up your own pronouns and join the identity cult. 

[-GD-X★ 7,731]

Just now, Cooke said:

Non binary is when you're too chicken to chop off your dick and tits but still want to make up your own pronouns and join the identity cult. 

lol i have no clue, nor care. i just HATE these stupid terms. if you are a tranny, you are an IT. plain and simple. fuck this she/he crap. i don't care if they want to prance around like a boy/girl, but they need to accept that we don't have to accept their shit gender requests. 

[Cooke 2,026]

Just now, -GD-X said:

lol i have no clue, nor care. i just HATE these stupid terms. if you are a tranny, you are an IT. plain and simple. fuck this she/he crap. i don't care if they want to prance around like a boy/girl, but they need to accept that we don't have to accept their shit gender requests. 

Careful you might get banned 

[-GD-X★ 7,731]

Just now, Cooke said:

Careful you might get banned