I think Next Gen "4K" is going to be less important than ever

[Remij 4,682]

Essentially... with the new consoles, I think it's going to be more about rendering smarter and not harder than ever before.  Hitting "native" 4K is going to be a waste of hardware resources, even more so than it was attempting to hit that "4K" goal in this mid gen refresh. 

 

Think about it... really hammering home the "4K" gaming angle and really pushing for those higher resolutions was mostly for marketing and pushing people to adopt 4K TVs... more than it was about really hitting solid FPS or improving graphics quality.  It was ALWAYS going to be about a cleaner and sharper image and not really improving the graphical quality of assets beyond the base consoles.  Thus it was more important that games looked noticeably sharper and clearer than the base consoles.. and that was it.

 

With next gen consoles... we don't have that problem.  Games will be developed with the new consoles in mind, and they will stun alone on pure quality of assets, and animation and sheer geometry possible on the screen at once.  The immediate jump in graphic quality will definitely be noticeable... while the actual jump in IMAGE quality.. won't be quite so apparent.

 

So that's one part of it... but the other part, is that resolution is going to become even LESS important in the future.  Meaning, everything will look sufficiently clean and high res enough as a baseline that most people wont notice or care.  There's a couple reasons I believe this.  For one, AA technologies are improving every single day.  TAA when done properly no longer completely blurs the texture detail away, and games can be extremely temporally stable. 

 

Secondly, improvements to rendering technologies are going to make pinning down a "base resolution" extremely hard.  With next gen consoles and newer PC hardware, we're going to have Variable Rate Shading.. which is really going to fuck with Digital Foundry and other similar channel who do that sort of thing for a living.  Now obviously, there's going to be a fair share of games which target native 4K next gen.. that's a given.  It completely depends on what the developer decides is best for their games... but what I think, is that we're going to see a lot of VRS in games, which is going to make pinning down resolutions almost impossible, because all aspects of the image are going to be shaded at different precision levels and dynamically adjusting on the fly, much like Wolfenstein 2.

 

I feel both manufacturers consoles will already be suitably considered and marketed as "4K" devices and graphics in games are going to look suitably clean, and sharp, and detailed beyond the current gen "4K" that it's going to pave the way of de-emphasizing the importance of hitting some stupid arbitrary resolution and marketing it in the first place.  I expect the new "thing" for next gen consoles will be doing more with less.  New reconstruction techniques, variable rate shading, FP16 "RPM" optimizations...  it will be more important that they are implementing those techniques in order to maximize graphical quality rather than who's hitting the highest native resolution.

 

In all honesty... a solid 1800p with an actual good quality TAA solution, looks almost imperceptibly different from 4K at normal TV viewing distances.  A slight softness perhaps...  that developers can easily design around when making their game.  An 1800p high quality PS5/XB2 game is going to smoke any native 4K PRO/X1X game.. obviously.  Higher quality post processing effects and smarter rendering will negate any perceptible difference in image quality.

 

I expect First Party studios, especially on the Sony side, will push smarter rendering to really raise the bar, over hitting some "native" number.

[Playstation Tablet 1,726]

A lot of cluseless people think resolution = graphics. 

Its 32 vs 64 bit level marketing. Most people on forums are even clueless.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Team 2019

[JonDnD 2,636]

Lmao just because your 2080ti flopped doesn't mean the next consoles will

[Remij 4,682]

3 minutes ago, Jon2B said:

Lmao just because your 2080ti flopped doesn't mean the next consoles will

You're so fucking stupid  

[lostfool 680]

Lemtards are all about resolution.  They don't care about anything else.  It could be Star Fox type polygons and they will cum all over themselves if it is in 4k.  Fucking stupid

[JonDnD 2,636]

4 minutes ago, Remij_ said:

You're so fucking stupid  

Says the guy that paid 1200 dollars for an Xbox x LOL 

[Playstation Tablet 1,726]

I personally like the 4K 60fps checkerboard idea from more frames for higher accuracy. Making a whole host of games 60fps would be god sent.

[Teh_Diplomat 2,054]

8 minutes ago, Remij_ said:

You're so fucking stupid  

Like I've said previously, Jerry has his jerry-go-round; JonB has his puzzle room with no challenges, poor grammar, and no actual key or door. 

 

 

Enjoy! 

[Remij 4,682]

3 minutes ago, Jon2B said:

Says the guy that paid 1200 dollars for an Xbox x LOL 

At Xbox One X settings I get 3x the fps you do LOLROFL

So shut up stupid 

[JonDnD 2,636]

Just now, Remij_ said:

At Xbox One X settings I get 3x the fps you do LOLROFL

So shut up stupid 

Lmao not in metro . Thhbk :) rtx FLOPPED

[Playstation Tablet 1,726]

Maybe 60fps will be the new marketing gimmick next-gen? I mean thats what Phil alluded to.

[DynamiteCop 2,086]

Xbox is already I would say in the 85th percentile of native 4K when you average out the results of games that have come to the Xbox One X, and that's on a 6 Teraflop two generation removed Polaris GPU. If they make the move to a 12'ish Teraflop Navi architecture we could be in completely different performative territory as they're first off no longer bound to GCN or its limitations, but they'll also have considerably more bandwidth and a much more powerful CPU.

 

4K as a native standard doesn't seem like something foreign for a system like that, and with the CPU advantages neither does a 60 FPS target. With a tablet CPU and what equates to an RX 580 they're already doing near or at 4K 30, this doesn't seem like some kind of shock or far reach. 

 

 

[Playstation Tablet 1,726]

1 minute ago, DynamiteCop! said:

Xbox is already I would say in the 85th percentile of native 4K when you average out the results of games that have come to the Xbox One X, and that's on a 6 Teraflop two generation removed Polaris GPU. If they make the move to a 12'ish Teraflop Navi architecture we could be in completely different performative territory as they're first off no longer bound to GCN or its limitations, but they'll also have considerably more bandwidth and a much more powerful CPU.

 

4K as a native standard doesn't seem like something foreign for a system like that, and with the CPU advantages neither does a 60 FPS target. With a tablet CPU and what equates to an RX 580 they're already doing near or at 4K 30, this doesn't seem like some kind of shock or far reach. 

 

 

The number crunching theorycrafting might make sense, real world results with massively more complex visuals and going by experience of previous gens 4K native is highly unlike for post cross gen games. If anything as the gen goes on many games take a resolution/framerate hit to push graphical fidelity.

[DynamiteCop 2,086]

2 minutes ago, Team 2019 said:

The number crunching theorycrafting might make sense, real world results with massively more complex visuals and going by experience of previous gens 4K native is highly unlike for post cross gen games. If anything as the gen goes on many games take a resolution/framerate hit to push graphical fidelity.

I think you're wrong, we'll have a GPU that's double the on paper power of the X with vast architectural improvements out of the scope of GCN which will realistically be more in line with a 2.5x gain and new feature sets, plus much more bandwidth and a CPU no doubt 5-6 times more capable. 

[Playstation Tablet 1,726]

1 minute ago, DynamiteCop! said:

I think you're wrong, we'll have a GPU that's double the on paper power of the X with vast architectural improvements out of the scope of GCN which will realistically be more in line with a 2.5x gain and new feature sets, plus much more bandwidth and a CPU no doubt 5-6 times more capable. 

I assume this was the thought process people had when going from last gen to expecting all games being 1080p this gen. It didn't pan out like that. That's for 30fps games. I can't remember a single 1080p @ 60fps game this gen with complex visuals on the base models.

[lostfool 680]

3 minutes ago, Team 2019 said:

I assume this was the thought process people had when going from last gen to expecting all games being 1080p this gen. It didn't pan out like that. That's for 30fps games. I can't remember a single 1080p @ 60fps game this gen with complex visuals on the base models.

Not on the Xbox one but PS4 yes

[DynamiteCop 2,086]

Just now, lostfool said:

Not on the Xbox one but PS4 yes

At 60 FPS? What games? He's right, but that's almost entirely hamstrung to a CPU limitation which won't be an issue going forward.

[Playstation Tablet 1,726]

1 minute ago, DynamiteCop! said:

At 60 FPS? What games? He's right, but that's almost entirely hamstrung to a CPU limitation which won't be an issue going forward.

There are always limitations, there is always a bottleneck stopping you from doing X or Y. 

[Playstation Tablet 1,726]

If Sony or MS set out with a 4K @ 60fps marketing I can see 90% of their first party adhere to that. But that's cause they are first party and getting guidelines. The Order was freaking 800p for christ's sake after all the 1080p bullshit.

 

Third party working across multiple system configurations? Highly unlikely.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Team 2019

[Remij 4,682]

It's not the fact that they can't... it's that they wont.

 

Many more games this gen COULD have been 1080p/60fps... or native resolutions.. ect ect.  The thing about console development is that DEVELOPERS decide what to target.  And the reality is that they are smart enough to know when extra resolution becomes wasteful.  If we want TRULY next generation looking graphics... it's going to come at 30fps and sub native 4K pixel counts... guaranteed.  Just as it always is.  Just because the hardware is more powerful doesn't mean that the baselines set in place since HD consoles began was going to change.  30fps will always be a viable framerate for console games, and to push the hardware, they are going to render more efficiently.

 

People aren't even going to notice the difference... nor will they give a fuck about resolutions when they see a truly next gen looking game.