Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ike

Jesus the media is really against Bernie, fuck CNN

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, GeorgeW1000 said:

I just don't reply to you because you're a waste of time and a waste of air. 

No. you don't reply because I prove you wrong.

 

You can't win an argument to save your life.

 

And I'm going to continue bitchslapping you with every one of your posts.

 

Its not going to stop. The only thing you can do is simply stop posting stupid shit.

 

But stupid people can't help themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GeorgeW1000 said:

You have to think about more than the costs, but the availability of ambulances on the street. Will there be an ambulance if you call? There better be one if you're having an emergency. High price helps keep something always available. Id rather the prices be high and have something available than costs be non existent and I can't get one.  

Yes there will be one if I need it lol

 

You’re very deluded and have clearly been conditioned into thinking America’s healthcare system is the only way to do it. America is the ONLY major country in the world that is structured around private insurers

 

It has consistently worse health outcomes and people going into debt for getting treatment for their health. It is ridiculous

 

Firefighters used to be privatised with insurers taking advantage of people too. I bet you’d argue that’s a good system as well

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Voidler said:

Yes there will be one if I need it lol

 

You’re very deluded and have clearly been conditioned into thinking America’s healthcare system is the only way to do it. America is the ONLY major country in the world that is structured around private insurers

 

It has consistently worse health outcomes and people going into debt for getting treatment for their health. It is ridiculous

 

Firefighters used to be privatised with insurers taking advantage of people too. I bet you’d argue that’s a good system as well

I'm not really arguing against you, I didn't take the healthcare economics class yet. I learned a bunch just researching for this thread.

 

All I had were some anecdotal stories why privatized healthcare is better, in my experience. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Liquid said:

Lmfao you realize that you are talking about yourself right? 

I was a Bernie supporter in 2016 when they were less toxic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, GeorgeW1000 said:

$800 is not too much for life saving care

You don't find it a little weird to bang the drum on the importance of the perspective of economics in these discussions and then not only ignore the removal of a pretty key market force but cheer on the subsequent prices as logical?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, GeorgeW1000 said:

What's wrong with that? People act like paying for something drains your life force or something. 

Next time someone ask "how are we going to pay for it" in regards to universal Healthcare, please say this to them. Thank you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Vini said:

I was a Bernie supporter in 2016 when they were less toxic

you support Trump now... 

So? I swear to God my brain is fucking melting from the thought cancer of the Trump people on this forum. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Hot Sauce said:

You don't find it a little weird to bang the drum on the importance of the perspective of economics in these discussions and then not only ignore the removal of a pretty key market force but cheer on the subsequent prices as logical?

Thank you... I'm reading what he's writing and it's like "lol this dumb bitch" 

 

It's like that episode of Sunny where Mac and Dennis are buying wine by the glass, and a waitress mentioned it's cheaper for them to buy a bottle and they defiantly shoo her away. Happy in their ignorance. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also this guy's bragging about being able to pay medical bills in installments like that's a gift. It's fucking necessary as giving people 30 days to pay off thousands of dollars could never work. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Hot Sauce said:

You don't find it a little weird to bang the drum on the importance of the perspective of economics in these discussions and then not only ignore the removal of a pretty key market force but cheer on the subsequent prices as logical?

No, I posted about important economic concepts.

 

But it's weird that the price of an ambulance is so high, I think I found out the reason. 

 

Quote

That bill is going to be pretty big. In the U.S., ambulances charge way more than they collect. It is that way all over the country. The reason is the collection rate. The ambulance company might send out 10 bills for $1,500 each. Two of the bills might be paid in full. Another bill will be paid by Medicare at $450. Two more by Medicaid at $105 each. The rest might go uncollected because the patient didn't have insurance or an address to send the bill.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/why-an-ambulance-costs-so-much-4093846

 

Healthcare has a free rider problem. People use the services but don't pay. That's the problem with today--people abusing the system. That isn't going to change with single payer, people will just pay for free riders through taxation. Maybe medicare for all is the better system to address the free rider problem, maybe not, I'd have to take the healthcare economics class. :shrug:

 

Besides the point, I like things with high prices because the pricing system makes everything available. That's how it works. If there's a quantity below the market price, there's a shortage, if there's one above market price, there's a surplus. Because of this, things on the market, in theory, are always available. That is, if you don't have a free rider problem. 

supply.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GeorgeW1000 said:

No, I posted about important economic concepts.

 

But it's weird that the price of an ambulance is so high, I think I found out the reason. 

 

https://www.verywellhealth.com/why-an-ambulance-costs-so-much-4093846

 

Healthcare has a free rider problem. People use the services but don't pay. That's the problem with today--people abusing the system. That isn't going to change with single payer, people will just pay for free riders through taxation. Maybe medicare for all is the better system to address the free rider problem, maybe not, I'd have to take the healthcare economics class. :shrug:

 

Besides the point, I like things with high prices because the pricing system makes everything available. That's how it works. If there's a quantity below the market price, there's a shortage, if there's one above market price, there's a surplus. Because of this, things on the market, in theory, are always available. That is, if you don't have a free rider problem. 

supply.jpg

Lmfao this nigga said he likes things with high prices. It's like someone invented a pig that likes to be slaughtered. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, GeorgeW1000 said:

No, I posted about important economic concepts.

What are you disagreeing with, exactly? I'm saying it's silly to post some important economic concepts and ignore others.

 

49 minutes ago, GeorgeW1000 said:

But it's weird that the price of an ambulance is so high, I think I found out the reason. 

 

https://www.verywellhealth.com/why-an-ambulance-costs-so-much-4093846

 

Healthcare has a free rider problem. People use the services but don't pay. That's the problem with today--people abusing the system.

So you're saying that despite healthcare not being socialized in this country, people are still subsidizing the health costs of others through higher prices? Sounds familiar...

 

My point was more than just ambulances, though. The inability to balk at a price being too high because the alternative is dying eliminates a pretty key market force to dampen price increases. It's a bit silly to try to be the economics guy and not consider that as important.

 

58 minutes ago, GeorgeW1000 said:

That isn't going to change with single payer, people will just pay for free riders through taxation.

I don't think anybody has made the argument that this would change with single payer, but that through single payer you can reduce costs even with freeloaders.

 

2 hours ago, GeorgeW1000 said:

Besides the point, I like things with high prices

:ben:

 

3 hours ago, GeorgeW1000 said:

Besides the point, I like things with high prices because the pricing system makes everything available. That's how it works. If there's a quantity below the market price, there's a shortage, if there's one above market price, there's a surplus. Because of this, things on the market, in theory, are always available. That is, if you don't have a free rider problem. 

Sure, and with the impending, projected physician shortage even without adding millions more to the healthcare participation pool, I can see the concern. I think it's overstated with regards to emergency services, but, as a Canadian that spent 6 months to find out I had a pinched nerve and another 6 after that to find out I didn't have any muscle atrophy as a result, it certainly impacts non-emergency medical care.

 

I'll put you down for free university to help push people towards meeting the demand of physicians and specialists. :face:

 

I'm also not against private healthcare. I support it as a means of reducing stress on public healthcare, but even if I didn't I would, at a minimum, still support access to private healthcare just as a means to ease people concerned with potential wait times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Hot Sauce said:

What are you disagreeing with, exactly? I'm saying it's silly to post some important economic concepts and ignore others.

 

So you're saying that despite healthcare not being socialized in this country, people are still subsidizing the health costs of others through higher prices? Sounds familiar...

 

My point was more than just ambulances, though. The inability to balk at a price being too high because the alternative is dying eliminates a pretty key market force to dampen price increases. It's a bit silly to try to be the economics guy and not consider that as important.

 

I don't think anybody has made the argument that this would change with single payer, but that through single payer you can reduce costs even with freeloaders.

 

:ben:

 

Sure, and with the impending, projected physician shortage even without adding millions more to the healthcare participation pool, I can see the concern. I think it's overstated with regards to emergency services, but, as a Canadian that spent 6 months to find out I had a pinched nerve and another 6 after that to find out I didn't have any muscle atrophy as a result, it certainly impacts non-emergency medical care.

 

I'll put you down for free university to help push people towards meeting the demand of physicians and specialists. :face:

 

I'm also not against private healthcare. I support it as a means of reducing stress on public healthcare, but even if I didn't I would, at a minimum, still support access to private healthcare just as a means to ease people concerned with potential wait times.

I appreciate this post, but I was just using my economics training to push what I know. Most of my responses were anecdotal. 

 

I haven't taken the healthcare economics class! I keep saying this. :luigi:

 

I do think it's pretty unfair to have 80% of ambulance cases be freeloading, with only 2 people out of 10 paying for their ride. This is what "free riding" is. Traditionally, using welfare isn't free riding because at least using medicaid helps pay for the costs of the ride. At least medicaid patients pay something, where as a free rider wouldn't pay anything. 

 

I said I liked high prices to pay for things, but it's not true that I like exorbitantly high prices. There's no reason for prices to beyond the price of the market. When the price is too high, for example, there's a surplus... and you don't want that. Suppliers don't want that because they can't sell. 

 

I'm just a fan of resellers of products. If I missed out on preordering that anime figurine, a reseller would put it up at a higher price. I like that, because that means it's available even if regular people think it's not worth the extra money, or that it's a "rip off." I also like ticket re-sellers for concerts.  If I missed out buying a ticket for the show I wanted to go to, and it's sold out, I can always buy from a reseller online at a higher price. High prices aren't something to be scared of. In fact they can be very good. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This isn't to say that I *prefer* higher prices than lower prices, just that Im willing to pay for things a lot of people wouldn't be. 

 

Ideally demand isn't so much that the price of things are still low and the availability exists at low prices. Like a candy bar or something.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GeorgeW1000 said:

I appreciate this post, but I was just using my economics training to push what I know. Most of my responses were anecdotal. 

 

I haven't taken the healthcare economics class! I keep saying this. :luigi:

 

I do think it's pretty unfair to have 80% of ambulance cases be freeloading, with only 2 people out of 10 paying for their ride. This is what "free riding" is. Traditionally, using welfare isn't free riding because at least using medicaid helps pay for the costs of the ride. At least medicaid patients pay something, where as a free rider wouldn't pay anything. 

 

I said I liked high prices to pay for things, but it's not true that I like exorbitantly high prices. There's no reason for prices to beyond the price of the market. When the price is too high, for example, there's a surplus... and you don't want that. Suppliers don't want that because they can't sell. 

 

I'm just a fan of resellers of products. If I missed out on preordering that anime figurine, a reseller would put it up at a higher price. I like that, because that means it's available even if regular people think it's not worth the extra money, or that it's a "rip off." I also like ticket re-sellers for concerts.  If I missed out buying a ticket for the show I wanted to go to, and it's sold out, I can always buy from a reseller online at a higher price. High prices aren't something to be scared of. In fact they can be very good. 

"your economics" are irrelevant. They aren't sound economics, we have proof of better, cheaper systems.

 

Its simply not up for debate.

 

Secondly..........it is the law that people MUST BE GIVEN emergency medical care. That includes ambulances and ER visits. Nixon wrote that bill into law almost 50 years ago.

 

What you are saying it just border idiotic.

 

Not to mention........if you buy for-profit health insurance.............you are a free-rider.

 

What do you think paying for insurance entails? You are paying into a pool of people gathering their money to cover the medical expenses of people. And if you ever require medical services, PEOPLE ARE PAYING YOUR FULL COSTS with that pool of money.

 

So the only way you are not a free-rider...........is if you have no health insurance, and are paying FULL PRICE for all medical services out of your own pocket. Which, if that ever happens...........you clearly won't do that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, GeorgeW1000 said:

This isn't to say that I *prefer* higher prices than lower prices, just that Im willing to pay for things a lot of people wouldn't be. 

 

Ideally demand isn't so much that the price of things are still low and the availability exists at low prices. Like a candy bar or something.  

Then what you are saying is that your willing to cut your nose to spite the face.

 

You're basically outing yourself as a short-sighted idiot.

 

Secondly, and more importantly..................healthcare is not a free market.

 

Tell me...........if you're bleeding out the side of your body?  Are you shopping for prices to see which hospital is cheaper?

Are you asking for prices at the ER desk?

Are you able to COMPARE prices between hospitals?

 

A "free market" requires that YOU, the consumer, have the ability to "shop" and that is what creates competition and thus creates a market that is fair.

 

If its a "captured" market when the consumer doesn't have much of a choice..............how is it a free market?

Edited by jehurey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, GeorgeW1000 said:

I appreciate this post, but I was just using my economics training to push what I know. Most of my responses were anecdotal. 

 

I haven't taken the healthcare economics class! I keep saying this. :luigi:

 

I do think it's pretty unfair to have 80% of ambulance cases be freeloading, with only 2 people out of 10 paying for their ride. This is what "free riding" is. Traditionally, using welfare isn't free riding because at least using medicaid helps pay for the costs of the ride. At least medicaid patients pay something, where as a free rider wouldn't pay anything. 

 

I said I liked high prices to pay for things, but it's not true that I like exorbitantly high prices. There's no reason for prices to beyond the price of the market. When the price is too high, for example, there's a surplus... and you don't want that. Suppliers don't want that because they can't sell. 

 

I'm just a fan of resellers of products. If I missed out on preordering that anime figurine, a reseller would put it up at a higher price. I like that, because that means it's available even if regular people think it's not worth the extra money, or that it's a "rip off." I also like ticket re-sellers for concerts.  If I missed out buying a ticket for the show I wanted to go to, and it's sold out, I can always buy from a reseller online at a higher price. High prices aren't something to be scared of. In fact they can be very good. 

Part of what makes you short sighted is that you act like these people who don't pay get away with out paying a bar tab. Stuff like that affects people's credit scores, which impact other aspect of their lives. Which makes stuff like renting an apartment, buying a car, even getting certain jobs. 

 

There's a ripple affect to this, poverty isn't free. You are poor and have to eat unhealthy, or not take care of your teeth, or afford therapy what does the quality of life become? 

 

This trickle down effect is why so many other nations rank higher in key quality of life indicators and MAGA idiots only have flat-screen TVs, guns, and jets to brag about great we are. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me give you an example of how stupid this guy is............either stupid, or he's just covering his ears:

 

I'm going to post this article..........and he's just going to "pretend" to not read it, and try to continue with his argument that being in medical debt simply isn't a big deal, its just like any other bill you pay.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coffeyville-kansas-medical-debt-county-in-rural-kansas-is-jailing-people-over-unpaid-medical-debt/

 

Quote

 

CBS News February 9, 2020, 7:18 PM

"You wouldn't think you'd go to jail over medical bills": County in rural Kansas is jailing people over unpaid medical debt

Last Updated Feb 9, 2020 7:56 PM EST

There is at least one issue a divided electorate can come together on this election year: A recent poll finds 90% of those surveyed agreed on the importance of making health care more affordable.

 

Millions of Americans remain uninsured.

 

As Meg Oliver reports in partnership with ProPublica, some people are even going to jail because they're squeezed by a system that's putting new demands on overburdened incomes.

 

Tres and Heather Biggs' son Lane was diagnosed with leukemia when he was five years old. At the same time, Heather suffered seizures from Lyme disease. 
 
"We had so many — multiple health issues in our family at the same time, it put us in a bracket that made insurance unattainable," Heather Biggs said. "It would have made no sense. We would have had to have not eaten, not had a home."

 

Tres Biggs was working two jobs but they fell behind on their medical bills, then the unthinkable happened.

 

 "You wouldn't think you'd go to jail over medical bills," Tres Biggs said. 
 
Tres Biggs went to jail for failing to appear in court for unpaid medical bills. He described it as "scary." 

 

"I was scared to death," Tres Biggs said. "I'm a country kid  — I had to strip down, get hosed and put a jumpsuit on." 

 

Bail was $500. He said they had "maybe $50 to $100" at the time. 

 

In rural Coffeyville, Kansas, where the poverty rate is twice the national average, attorneys like Michael Hassenplug have built successful law practices representing medical providers to collect debt owed by their neighbors. 

 

"I'm just doing my job," Hassenplug said. "They want the money collected, and I'm trying to do my job as best I can by following the law." 

 

That law was put in place at Hassenplug's own recommendation to the local judge. The attorney uses that law by asking the court to direct people with unpaid medical bills to appear in court every three months and state they are too poor to pay in what is called a "debtors exam."

 

If two hearings are missed, the judge issues an arrest warrant for contempt of court. Bail is set at $500.

 

Hassenplug said he gets "paid on what's collected." If the bail money is applied to the judgment, then he gets a portion of that, he said. 

 

"We're sending them to jail for contempt of court for failure to appear," Hassenplug said. 

In most courts, bail money is returned when defendants appear in court. But in almost every case in Coffeyville, that money goes to pay attorneys like Hassenplug and the medical debt his clients are owed.

 

"This raises serious constitutional concerns," said Nusrat Choudhury, the deputy director of the ACLU. "What's happening here is a jailhouse shake-down for cash that is the criminalization of private debt."

 

CBS News went to court on debt collection day. They wouldn't allow our cameras in, but we watched more than 60 people swear they didn't have enough money to pay, and only one of them had an attorney representing them. 

 

Michael Hassenplug continues to operate.

 

This, simply, should not be happening in America. Full stop.

 

The biggest cause for bankruptcy in America is medical debt.

 

There is no argument to be made regarding the subject of "Efficiency" when it comes to our current healthcare system in America. It fails at efficiency, and it does not benefit the middle class.

 

You think these people are going to get medical services because they love going to the doctor? Americans are literally walking in pain and avoiding the doctor because they're afraid of how much this is going to cost them.

 

This remains true EVEN IF YOU HAVE INSURANCE..........because you have a deductible, and for most people, the deductible is in the thousands of dollars.  So they don't want to go to the doctor for anything unless its a major ailment that was going to cost thousands of dollars anyway. They are literally paying a (discounted) insurance premium.........yet actively try to avoid using it whenever possible.

 

That's a pretty sweet business model for the private insurance companies. People are PAYING YOU for a product THEY DON'T WANT TO USE because they're trying to avoid the upfront costs as much as possible.

 

Does that sound like an industry that is operating under a "free market" system?

Edited by jehurey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-02-09 at 9:23 AM, DynamiteCop! said:

Foreigners thinking they understand our healthcare system :mj:

 

I not only had dictation over my plan, I can go to any doctor in my network which is a substantial amount. Any job that is worth a damn will have coverage.

“In my network” what a sad ass fucking system :drake:

I can go to any job in the country and have coverage, I can go start my own business or lose a job and still have health cover and see any doctor.
 

Your system is dog shit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-02-09 at 9:23 AM, DynamiteCop! said:

Foreigners thinking they understand our healthcare system :mj:

 

I not only had dictation over my plan, I can go to any doctor in my network which is a substantial amount. Any job that is worth a damn will have coverage.

“In my network” what a sad ass fucking system :drake:

I can go to any job in the country and have coverage, I can go start my own business or lose a job and still have health cover and see any doctor.
 

Your system is dog shit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×