Epic adds direct V buck purchases to Fortnite on iOS, apple gets pissed and removes the game, Epic responds by suing them

[Twinblade★ 3,892]

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/free-fortnite-epic-sues-apple-after-fortnite-remov/1100-6480913/

 

Apple's gonna get owned  

 

The direct V buck purchases means that the entire profits of those goes to Epic. Most other games with microtransactions get processed through the app store so apple still gets a cut, but thats no longer the case with Fortnite.

[Hot Sauce 2,727]

Epic has no leg to stand on. This is all cringey posturing to negotiate a lower cut for Apple.

[jehurey 3,228]

Its a lawsuit worth having, however.

 

Because if Epic wins and Apple loses. Holy mother of god, are they going to take a massive financial hit when they have to allow apps have their own in-game purchases through another service.

 

Its an anti-trust lawsuit. And it depends what they're arguing over. The right for Apple to allow in-app purchase through other services, or the right for Apple to allow apps to run on the phone without getting it through the App Store.

 

How did Epic change the V-buck purchasing? Did it open up a credit card payment webpage while you were in the app?

[jehurey 3,228]

Quote

Epic does not shy away in the slightest from taking clear shots at Apple, going so far as to say, "Apple intentionally sabotages consumer iOS devices to prevent users from installing software directly from developers, as consumers are free to do on PC and Mac." It also notes that direct payments are allowed in certain types of apps, but that games are not allowed to operate in this way. It says it isn't looking for a special exception for Fortnite, but instead a change that all developers (and thus, consumers) can benefit from.

 

It further points out that it believes the workarounds used by services like Netflix are "user-unfriendly," saying, "Apple prohibits apps like Netflix from even telling customers how to pay for their subscription service outside of the app. Epic wants to give all customers simple, in-app purchasing options free of Apple obstruction."

They definitely have a case here.

 

You have Netflix on your iPhone, but when you pay for your Netflix, you are paying for it directly on the Netflix website through their credit card system. Apple doesn't get a cut of that transaction, yet they still allow the app the exist on the App Store.

 

Fortnite app could do the same thing. Sign up through the Epic Games website, put your credit card on file, create your account.

 

Download Fortnite through the App store, play it, and then when you want to make a purchase it prompts you to charge your card you have on file through the Epic Games website, and get your in-app content.

[Hot Sauce 2,727]

19 minutes ago, jehurey said:

They definitely have a case here.

 

You have Netflix on your iPhone, but when you pay for your Netflix, you are paying for it directly on the Netflix website through their credit card system. Apple doesn't get a cut of that transaction, yet they still allow the app the exist on the App Store.

 

Fortnite app could do the same thing. Sign up through the Epic Games website, put your credit card on file, create your account.

 

Download Fortnite through the App store, play it, and then when you want to make a purchase it prompts you to charge your card you have on file through the Epic Games website, and get your in-app content.

These aren't the same scenarios.

 

You can't sign up for Netflix through the iOS app as there's zero in-app transactions, you're just being granted access to your subscription through the app. The Fortnite equivalent would be buying skins on PC to avoid giving Apple a cut and then using those skins on the iOS version of the game, which you could do from the start.

[jehurey 3,228]

3 minutes ago, Hot Sauce said:

These aren't the same scenarios.

 

You can't sign up for Netflix through the iOS app as there's zero in-app transactions, you're just being granted access to your subscription through the app. The Fortnite equivalent would be buying skins on PC to avoid giving Apple a cut and then using those skins on the iOS version of the game, which you could do from the start.

What legal distinction is there between you paying money to a company in regularly scheduled intervals.......and you paying money to a company at any time, however you please?

 

That's not a disqualifier. The issue is: Netflix processes credit card transactions outside of the Apple payment processing system, yet they still get to have their app on Apple's system. But Epic Games cannot.

 

I think a US court will lean towards Epic's perspective of this.

Edited August 13, 2020 by jehurey

[Hot Sauce 2,727]

4 minutes ago, jehurey said:

What legal distinction is there between you paying money to a company in regularly scheduled intervals.......and you paying money to a company are any time?

The Terms of Service that disallows what Epic is trying to do.

 

5 minutes ago, jehurey said:

That's not a disqualifier. The issue is: Netflix processes credit card transactions outside of the Apple payment processing system, yet they still get to have their app on Apple's system. But Epic Games cannot.

You're just saying the same thing in a different way that I've already pointed out is wrong.

 

Epic Games is allowed to process credit card transactions outside of the Apple payment processing system provided that payment is initiated outside of the iOS app. Epic is allowed to cease all in-app purchases and refer people to their website to make purchases. Epic is not allowed to circumvent the Apple payment processing system from within the iOS app.

 

12 minutes ago, jehurey said:

I think a US court will lean towards Epic's perspective of this.

Almost assuredly the opposite, but if they did you'd be able to see competing storefronts on consoles, too. It would be an absolutely huge shakeup. 

[jehurey 3,228]

So I just went and downloaded the Vudu app from the Google Play store.

 

I have a Vudu account that I signed up through Walmart. So I download the app, I log into my account, I can view the movies I had purchased previously.

 

They have promotional specials on movies you can buy on sale. I went to Dawn of the Dead unrate edition, and the HD version was selling for $7.99

 

I selected that, and then it took me to another screen to confirm the purchase, and it was NOT an Google Pay screen, it was still entirely within Vudu. I confirmed it, which means that the credit card information I have on file with Vudu automatically gets charged.

 

And on the phone, I can now watch Dawn of the Dead.  Google did not get a single penny from that transaction.

 

How is Fortnite any different than this?

 

Both Apple and Google  are going to get fucked.

[jehurey 3,228]

Just now, Hot Sauce said:

The Terms of Service that disallows what Epic is trying to do.

 

You're just saying the same thing in a different way that I've already pointed out is wrong.

 

Epic Games is allowed to process credit card transactions outside of the Apple payment processing system provided that payment is initiated outside of the iOS app. Epic is allowed to cease all in-app purchases and refer people to their website to make purchases. Epic is not allowed to circumvent the Apple payment processing system from within the iOS app.

 

Almost assuredly the opposite, but if they did you'd be able to see competing storefronts on consoles, too. It would be an absolutely huge shakeup. 

Terms of Service are not eternally binding in a court case, especially if you see them applied differently in other apps with other companies.

 

And secondly................you don't know the terms of service for the BACK END app makers. So why are you even bringing that up?

 

Quote

Epic Games is allowed to process credit card transactions outside of the Apple payment processing system provided that payment is initiated outside of the iOS app. Epic is allowed to cease all in-app purchases and refer people to their website to make purchases. Epic is not allowed to circumvent the Apple payment processing system from within the iOS app.

I just proved this to be wrong in the post up above.

 

And I am certain that Epic would easily allow a web page to be opened up from the app that takes them to their account and enter their CC info to buy V-bucks and either automatically be redirected back to the game, or maybe be provided with a code for them to redeem in order to get their V-bucks within the game.

[bhytre 2,753]

They removed it from the Google Play store as well

[jehurey 3,228]

4 minutes ago, bhytre said:

They removed it from the Google Play store as well

The reason I suspect that Google isn't being sued by Epic Games right now is because, ultimately, you can open your permissions within Android OS to allow unknown APKs to download and be installed onto your Android phone. Its a setting that they don't like advertising, but its there.

 

Apple does not allow this.

 

Epic is setting them up. Either allow independent in-app purchases, or open up iOS to allow "unregistered" apps to be installed in iOS.

 

Apple is nice and fucked, because its doubtful that an American court will allow them to keep both restrictions in place.

 

State attorney generals or the DoJ should have brought this up against Apple half a decade ago.

[madmaltese★ 2,553]

 

 

[jehurey 3,228]

Holy shit:

 

 

So...........Epic Games ALREADY had this video short ready?

 

And they already had legal papers prepared to file this afternoon?

 

In other words, they had planned on this happening. They wanted it to happen.

 

I mean.........if Fortnite doesn't win, I'm almost certain European Antitrust lawmakers are going to break out their fucksticks on Apple.

[-GD-X★ 7,729]

Apple will win 

[Goukosan 2,249]

24 minutes ago, madmaltese said:

 

 

 

[Hot Sauce 2,727]

Epic is suing Google now, too.