Vini 430 Posted March 16, 2021 Author Share Posted March 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, jehurey said: I just got done watching BvS Ultimate Edition just now. And the thing is. What exactly CAN Zack Snyder or any director possibly do with the premise? Batman vs Superman is like going straight from Iron Man to the 2012 Battle of New York in Avengers. in under 3 hours. Its even harder than that. Aliens already exist and already wrecked havoc in the opening scene. Christopher Nolan would've failed with this premise. If you try to ground it in reality, what are you going to do with Superman, or Wonder Woman? And how are you going to give them an adequate conflict? So the movie requires fantasy sci-fi from the very beginning, and the whole movie is an exercise of trying to explain a way with how Bruce Wayne and Lex Luthor can create the conflict. To tell you the truth I like the first half of the movie. I like the somewhat hyper-real world, but everybody is still just talking and setting up the pieces for the eventual fighting. Its still restrained in the first half. Feels very Zack Snyder Watchmen-ey when they are doing the investigative stuff. I also find the dream sequences to be interesting, but what I am really am thinking about is "what the fuck is Zack Snyder working on existing comicbook properties that will not be gritty, bloody, bleak R-rated movies, why doesn't he just create a totally separate thing in which he can incorporate these R-rated bleak world". That post-apocalyptic dream sequence with the cities completely exploded and pillers of fire in the distance, and there's MGS4-like paramilitary groups getting into fire fights, as these insect creatures start coming in. That's interesting, I just don't think it belongs in a Superman/Batman movie. I saw this on reddit and I agree. Zack Snyder, the director, can really be fantastic sometimes. Zack Snyder, the writer and storyteller, simply doesn't make much sense. Its a flawed premise. You cannot make a movie in which you get Batman to fight Superman without trying to force something stupid to happen. I agree that the premise is hard to pull off but I think they did a decent enough job. Snyder does like to subvert expectations for DC characters (Superman and Batman both kill) but that never bothers me unless the characters have no arc. I fully expect in Justice League the characters will grow into what's more recognizable in comics. The thing is it's not just Batman and Superman, DC is hard to pull off in general especially in light of Marvel's Disney like universe. Just look at the cannon. The only grounded universe you can build is Batman separate from the rest of the Justice League, so it's impossible to Christopher Nolan the whole thing. Once you incorporate any other god being characters then you either have to go mythological or crowd pleasing roller coaster type shit like Marvel. (I like the Russos movies, the rest not so much). To me Snyder is the perfect Disney antidote, and that's what DC needs if it wants to differentiate and stand out. And DC mythology is pretty dark in general Snyder is like middle of the road as far as that's concerned. I give BvS an 8 because some dialogue is ridiculous and the pacing is uneven. All in all though they handled the premise as well as possible, I actually believed that Batman would be blindly pissed at Superman, the film is pretty clear that he's spiraling into conspiratorial thinking he thinks superman is devil incarnate. And Lex keeps enabling him. Alfred warns him that conspiratorial shit turns good men evil. Edited March 16, 2021 by Vini Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Goukosan 2,258 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 (edited) DC did not have the patience or restraint that Marvel had to build up the characters in multiple seperate movies before they did the first avengers. DC went straight from Superman to Superman vs Batman.... that's the equivalent of going from Iron man 1 skip all. the movies in between and the then jump to civil war. Then they showed even less restraint and went from Batman vs Superman straight into Justice League... which is equivalent of going from Civil War straight into Avengers end game. So of course the storylines and the characters seems rushed and lacking any depth whatsoever. Edited March 16, 2021 by Goukosan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vini 430 Posted March 16, 2021 Author Share Posted March 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, Goukosan said: DC did not have the patience or restraint that Marvel had to build up the characters in multiple seperate movies before they did the first avengers. DC went straight from Superman to Superman vs Batman.... that's the equivalent of going from Iron man 1 skip all. the movies in between and the then jump to civil war. Then they showed even less restraint and went from Batman vs Superman straight into Justice League... which is equivalent of going from Civil War straight into Avengers end game. So of course the storylines and the characters seems rushed and lacking any depth whatsoever. Why does it have to follow the same path as Marvel who set these rules? DC's problem is not the chronology it's that WB execs are fuckin incompetent and they are constantly second guessing everything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Goukosan 2,258 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, Vini said: Why does it have to follow the same path as Marvel who set these rules? DC's problem is not the chronology it's that WB execs are fuckin incompetent and they are constantly second guessing everything. Marvel didn't set the rules for proper story and character development, that's called good movie making. They didn't have to do a million movies like Marvel did, but they could have at least spent a few movies building up the characters and overall story universe before jumping directly into Justice League. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vini 430 Posted March 16, 2021 Author Share Posted March 16, 2021 21 minutes ago, Goukosan said: Marvel didn't set the rules for proper story and character development, that's called good movie making. They didn't have to do a million movies like Marvel did, but they could have at least spent a few movies building up the characters and overall story universe before jumping directly into Justice League. A competent writer can easily start with Avengers and then tell branching stories or prequels. I don't see why comic book universe building has to follow that path at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Impossible 410 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, jehurey said: I just got done watching BvS Ultimate Edition just now. And the thing is. What exactly CAN Zack Snyder or any director possibly do with the premise? Batman vs Superman is like going straight from Iron Man to the 2012 Battle of New York in Avengers. in under 3 hours. Its even harder than that. Aliens already exist and already wrecked havoc in the opening scene. Christopher Nolan would've failed with this premise. If you try to ground it in reality, what are you going to do with Superman, or Wonder Woman? And how are you going to give them an adequate conflict? So the movie requires fantasy sci-fi from the very beginning, and the whole movie is an exercise of trying to explain a way with how Bruce Wayne and Lex Luthor can create the conflict. To tell you the truth I like the first half of the movie. I like the somewhat hyper-real world, but everybody is still just talking and setting up the pieces for the eventual fighting. Its still restrained in the first half. Feels very Zack Snyder Watchmen-ey when they are doing the investigative stuff. I also find the dream sequences to be interesting, but what I am really am thinking about is "what the fuck is Zack Snyder working on existing comicbook properties that will not be gritty, bloody, bleak R-rated movies, why doesn't he just create a totally separate thing in which he can incorporate these R-rated bleak world". That post-apocalyptic dream sequence with the cities completely exploded and pillers of fire in the distance, and there's MGS4-like paramilitary groups getting into fire fights, as these insect creatures start coming in. That's interesting, I just don't think it belongs in a Superman/Batman movie. I saw this on reddit and I agree. Zack Snyder, the director, can really be fantastic sometimes. Zack Snyder, the writer and storyteller, simply doesn't make much sense. Its a flawed premise. You cannot make a movie in which you get Batman to fight Superman without trying to force something stupid to happen. Yes, Zack "I would have had Batman get raped" Snyder really feels he has some pulse on grown up story telling. The problem is that his idea of grown up is equal to that of a 10 year old. He just gets "inspired" to rip off other better talents and ape their work. Edited March 16, 2021 by Mr. Impossible Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Impossible 410 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 25 minutes ago, Vini said: A competent writer can easily start with Avengers and then tell branching stories or prequels. I don't see why comic book universe building has to follow that path at all. Perhaps, but no competent writers seem to work on Snyder films. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
-GD-X★ 7,750 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/zack-snyders-justice-league-relentlessly-boring-and-endlessly-long/1900-6417648/ i'm sure it's not this bad, but LOL! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jehurey 3,238 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Mr. Impossible said: Yes, Zack "I would have had Batman get raped" Snyder really feels he has some pulse on grown up story telling. The problem is that his idea of grown up is equal to that of a 10 year old. He just gets "inspired" to rip off other better talents and ape their work. Zack Snyder is 100% a 13 year old who read ALL the comics, and then watches Terminator 2 and then imagines how he would make a Batman or Superman movie. He understands Batman and Superman in broad strokes. There is some fantastic scenes of Batman brutally beating criminals up that absolutely embarrasses Nolan's depictions, and Snyder manages to keep the action blue-collar instead of Matrix-like fighting. He just doesn't know how to film Bruce Wayne and have him provide his thoughts and feelings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Impossible 410 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 15 minutes ago, jehurey said: Zack Snyder is 100% a 13 year old who read ALL the comics, and then watches Terminator 2 and then imagines how he would make a Batman or Superman movie. He understands Batman and Superman in broad strokes. There is some fantastic scenes of Batman brutally beating criminals up that absolutely embarrasses Nolan's depictions, and Snyder manages to keep the action blue-collar instead of Matrix-like fighting. He just doesn't know how to film Bruce Wayne and have him provide his thoughts and feelings. One of the reasons I hate talking about BvS is because just about everything is bad. The batman fighting scenes were good I'll admit. He isn't Nolan and can appreciate a grounded fight... Which Nolan usually fails at. He has no idea how to tell an actually engaging story. It's like when music video directors make movies and they are a fucking mess because they don't actually get the story telling part since music videos don't have anything other than a general visual aesthetic to adhere to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ike★ 2,918 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 I liked Man of Steel honestly and I think it’s Snyder’s best, Superman’s best, and just an objectively good Superman story. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
-GD-X★ 7,750 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 10 minutes ago, Ike said: I liked Man of Steel honestly and I think it’s Snyder’s best, Superman’s best, and just an objectively good Superman story. better than the OG superman movies? hellll no Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Goukosan 2,258 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 4 hours ago, Vini said: A competent writer can easily start with Avengers and then tell branching stories or prequels. I don't see why comic book universe building has to follow that path at all. You missed the part where DC had planned to start an entire cinematic universe. They fucked up and didn't have the patience to take the time and invest the time needed to actually build it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vini 430 Posted March 16, 2021 Author Share Posted March 16, 2021 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Goukosan said: You missed the part where DC had planned to start an entire cinematic universe. They fucked up and didn't have the patience to take the time and invest the time needed to actually build it. We're not disagreeing.The suits at WB DC division are a bunch of twats. Especially that Hamada guy. He is directly responsible for messing with Cyborg and casting out Cavill as Superman. This guy's fuckin terrible Edited March 16, 2021 by Vini Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Impossible 410 Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 10 minutes ago, Goukosan said: You missed the part where DC had planned to start an entire cinematic universe. They fucked up and didn't have the patience to take the time and invest the time needed to actually build it. Lol any competent writer. Can we talk about how much of this movie was spent explaining that Lex was framing superman but like there was never a trial or accusations or anything. Like all of this fucking murder and destruction just to make batman mad. The whole set up of this stupid shit is more than twice as long as the actual conflict and resolution. Lol God in the extended cut it was revealed that lady that testified was an actress. So Lex Luther, super genius wants to frame superman by hiring an American actress to to go to go to court and testify under oath that superman murdered her husband that didn't exist? Then has her murdered in public by his henchman that does everything for him. Again, the movie is made for retarded people so they have to show this guy overseeing this shit. Again more screen time to tell an even dumber an befuddling story. It's like they just recorded children playing with toys for the plot and dialogue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vini 430 Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 78% and rising on RT. Crow has been served for you haters Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vini 430 Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) On 2021-03-15 at 11:57 PM, Ike said: Wait this is real? GS reviews movies now? And it's some blue haired dude from Portland? This is perfect Edited March 17, 2021 by Vini Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Impossible 410 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 3 hours ago, Vini said: 78% and rising on RT. Crow has been served for you haters Lol you sad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vini 430 Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) Those are fighting words lmao Variety don't fuck around Edited March 17, 2021 by Vini Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. House 3,371 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Normally I'd call Vini a manchild but he's actually just a child. Go watch a real movie, kid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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