Supreme Court officially kills Biden's Vaccine mandate for businesses

[Goukosan 2,283]

26 minutes ago, Ramza said:

My GF who was fully vaccinated is the reason I caught Covid. She brought it back home after a night out at a bar where only vaccinated people had access to the place, to say that only unvaccinated people can spread the disease or imply that they are a bigger threat is straight up wrong. %80 of adults in Quebec are fully vaccinated and it didn't slow or stop the spread of Omicron. The only person you defend when you take the shots is yourself.  

 

For the record I'm not opposed to vaccine, it can be a great tool to protect the most vulnerable. If I was 60+ years old I would have taken the shots without thinking twice.

 

Your analogy of safety belt doesn't make sense in the context of a virus, because there's this thing called natural immunity, which is right now is more efficient than three shots. So basically, you have your safety belt and I have a full plate medieval style armor. I am not a greater risk of spreading the disease than anyone who has been vaccinated.

 

So enough with the narrative that if you aren't vaccinated that you will spread the disease while vaxxed people won't. It's simply not true. The biggest benefit from vaccines is that it will considerably reduce the symptoms, so someone who'd normally end up in the hospital might fight it off just by staying at home. Like I said earlier, it's a great tool, as it's benefits and uses but I see no reason why it should be enforced on absolutely everyone.

 

Natural immunity alone is better than the three shots? 😐 Tell that to the over 5.5 million and counting people that have died worldwide from covid 19 since the pandemic started. 

 

The purpose of the Covid19 vaccine is to reduce the severity symptoms, reduce the probability of you being sent to the ICU and reduce the possibility of you dying from Covid19.   The more people that are vaxxed the the better because that raises everyone's chances or surviving if they do catch it. 

 

Obviously not everyone who is unvaxxed and gets Covid-19 will die, but why take that risk? You don't know how the virus will react in your body until you get it.  Where as the vaccine gives you an extra layer of protection on top of your natural immunity. 

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by Goukosan

[Mr. House 3,371]

13 hours ago, Mr. Impossible said:

 

OH, there are non right wing people who dont want to be vaxxed, but it's right wing media that is driving the anti-vax/skeptic angle as hard as possible. Like the right likes to talk about having conversations but then Candance Owns accuses Trump of sun downing when he says he got the shot and the shots are safe. Its not a real conversation when one side is being deceptive and dishonest. It's like their pundits are busy pretending they aren't vaxxed to appeal to the anti-vax plebs. 

 

 

It's kind of fucking crazy that you, a white man in Canada keeps comparing being unvaxed to being a person of color. Like how do you people not hear yourselves? This kind of wildly delusional white aggrievement shit is exactly what I mean by this isn't a conversation. WTF goes on in people like you's head is beyond baffling. I'm legitmately taken back that you're doubling down on this painfully dumb, completely obtuse, and self serving train of thought.  Imagine there was a shot that would help end discrimination? 

 

 

lol Here goes more of that white aggrievement. Now you're pulling trans people into this. 

 

WHAT DID ANY TRANS PERSON DO TO ANY OF YOU? 

 

 

No, not really. Laws aren't enforced by logical machine learning robots. They're enforced and upheld by people. OMG I Dont want to waste anymore time discussing race to someone as fucking dumb and or racist as you are. I'm honestly and this isnt forum embellishment, just ...I can't believe you're for real right now. 

 

 

lmfao jesus christ. 

 

I know in your mind it's all about you, but no one gives a shit about you. Like this is the disconnect. You're talking about you're super immune system but people are more concerned about getting sick by you, than you getting sick yourself. It's hard to imagine, but the entire world doesn't revolve around you. There's too many of you self important dipshits who go on about how you bested COVID or whatever or have Wolverine's healing factor and cant get sick and its like fuck your life! I dont care. You can carry a virus. I honestly dont care if you live or die. Especially after this conversation. 

 

 

You keep asking the same fucking question to which the answer is simple. You only make yourself look dumber with this high school sophomore rant you're going on. It's a public health issue, asshole. This is the right wing flavor. Other people live with their choices but your type is so fucking up your own asses the only thought in your mind is about you. In the situation of communicable diseases/viruses it's not a personal rights  issue as a human rights issue. We dont have to "just deal" with you. 

Vaccinated people can still carry the virus, spread it or get hospitalized. Two shots is %30 efficient against Omicron, if you disagree with that take it up to my provincial Government, comes straight out of their mouths. They are in a race for the booster shot because the old definition of being fully vaccinated as failed. They told us it the pandemic would be behind us if %70 of the population had their two shots and that's their reason for all these insane mandates and discriminatory laws, it didn't work. Why do you think a country with high vaccination rate still had a huge wave of Omicron regardless? You are clearly ignorant and on top of that laugh at the idea that someone with natural immunity not being a threat like I was talking nonsense.

 

I'm not comparing myself to someone of color, I'm pointing out your hypocrisy. Someone who rants about systematic oppression all day shouldn't celebrate non vaccinated people being oppressed. It's all I'm saying really but you're way too sensitive about trans or black people to get the message.

[Mr. House 3,371]

10 minutes ago, Goukosan said:

 

Natural immunity alone is better than the three shots? 😐 Tell that to the over 5.5 million and counting people that have died worldwide from covid 19 since the pandemic started. 

 

The purpose of the Covid19 vaccine is to reduce the severity symptoms, reduce the probability of you being sent to the ICU and reduce the possibility of you dying from Covid19.   The more people that are vaxxed the the better because that raises everyone's chances or surviving if they do catch it. 

 

Obviously not everyone who is unvaxxed who gets Covid-19 will die, but why take that risk? You don't know how the virus will react in your body until you get it.  Where as the vaccine gives you an extra layer of protection on top of your natural immunity. 

 

 

 

Did you miss the part where I said vaccines can be a great tool for the most vulnerable or that I would take the shots willingly if I was 60 years old?

 

Or the part I said the vaccines can reduce symptoms and prevent someone from being hospitalized in some cases?

 

The risk of dying for most of the age groups below 50 is extremely low. 

 

Someone who would take the shots shortly after having natural immunity would go against the antibodies produced by his/her white cells and would reduce it's efficiency. Right now I am literally way less likely to carry the disease and spread it than someone with two shots. That's a fact.

 

I have been telling people since day one that vaccinations was never %100 bulletproof in stopping the spreading of the disease. In some cases it can even complicate matters, the person carrying the disease doesn't feel the symptoms, thinks he's perfectly safe when in fact, the day he went shopping at Walmart (an exclusive right to vaccinated in my province, lmao) he actually spread the diseases to dozens of people, who in turn does the same. And on and on.

 

So, why are we still acting like the unvaccinated are THE problem? It's a part of the equation sure but the vaccine is not THE solution either.

[Goukosan 2,283]

19 minutes ago, Ramza said:

Did you miss the part where I said vaccines can be a great tool for the most vulnerable or that I would take the shots willingly if I was 60 years old?

 

Or the part I said the vaccines can reduce symptoms and prevent someone from being hospitalized in some cases?

 

The risk of dying for most of the age groups below 50 is extremely low. 

 

Someone who would take the shots shortly after having natural immunity would go against the antibodies produced by his/her white cells and would reduce it's efficiency. Right now I am literally way less likely to carry the disease and spread it than someone with two shots. That's a fact.

 

I have been telling people since day one that vaccinations was never %100 bulletproof in stopping the spreading of the disease. In some cases it can even complicate matters, the person carrying the disease doesn't feel the symptoms, thinks he's perfectly safe when in fact, the day he went shopping at Walmart (an exclusive right to vaccinated in my province, lmao) he actually spread the diseases to dozens of people, who in turn does the same. And on and on.

 

So, why are we still acting like the unvaccinated are THE problem? It's a part of the equation sure but the vaccine is not THE solution either.

 

 

The highlighted part of your post is absolute rubbish.  The MRNA shots have no traces of Covid in them, so it would not reduce your natural immunity because it's not introducing covid into your body. 

 

I think what you don't understand is the vaccine is not creating the antibodies... Its your own natural immunity that creates it even when you're vaccinated. 

 

The vaccine jumps starts your immune system to create the antibodies before you get infected, so that when you do get infected your body already knows how to fight it off and quickly. If you already had covid.. It boosts your immune system not attack it.

 

Vaccines are a major part of the solution, it's not the only part of the solution....who said that? 

 

If you don't understand how hospitals being overloaded with unvaxxed covid  patients has a ripple effects on everything else.... Then I can't help you there bro. 

 

If everyone is vaccinated and it reducing the symptoms, if they spread it to other vaccinated people..what happens?  They most likely get light symptoms and aren't hospitalized or die.   That's the point genius. 

 

Where as if your unvaxxed the probability of you having severe symptoms and or die is much much higher. 

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by Goukosan

[Mr. Impossible 431]

12 minutes ago, Ramza said:

Vaccinated people can still carry the virus, spread it or get hospitalized. Two shots is %30 efficient against Omicron, if you disagree with that take it up to my provincial Government, comes straight out of their mouths. They are in a race for the booster shot because the old definition of being fully vaccinated as failed. They told us it the pandemic would be behind us if %70 of the population had their two shots and that's their reason for all these insane mandates and discriminatory laws, it didn't work.

 

 

I dont have a problem with any of that. I'm not a fucking child like you are who is demanding a 100% effective, bulletproof answer like this a fucking Marvel movie. At this point in time it's about containing this as much as possible. This isn't the third act finale where an immediate cure is found and the world was saved. The vax lessens the spread, and symptoms. Varies on the variants but that's not someone's decision, it's how fucking nature works unfortunately. It's all better than doing fucking nothing. 

 

12 minutes ago, Ramza said:

 

 

Why do you think a country with high vaccination rate still had a huge wave of Omicron regardless? You are clearly ignorant and on top of that laugh at the idea that someone with natural immunity not being a threat like I was talking nonsense.

 

Because it's a variant, you retard...

 

 

12 minutes ago, Ramza said:

I'm not comparing myself to someone of color, I'm pointing out your hypocrisy. Someone who rants about systematic oppression all day shouldn't celebrate non vaccinated people being oppressed. It's all I'm saying really but you're way too sensitive about trans or black people to get the message.

No, you're not. You're actually claiming that you face more discrimination than a person of color and that y'all are being oppressed. LIKE WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?  WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE? Why are y'all like this? You literally claimed that black people dont face systematic discrimination but you do.

 

 

lol I'm way too sensitive about trans and people of color, yet yall are the ones who consistently bring them up out of no where for no reason at all. Is gaslighting all you people can do? 

[jehurey 3,299]

1 hour ago, Ramza said:

My GF who was fully vaccinated is the reason I caught Covid. She brought it back home after a night out at a bar where only vaccinated people had access to the place, to say that only unvaccinated people can spread the disease or imply that they are a bigger threat is straight up wrong

No, that's not wrong in the slightest.

 

People who are vaccinated would shed less virus (virons).

 

They wouldn't be coughing as bad as unvaccinated.

They wouldn't be sweating or excreting fluid as bad as the unvaccinated.

 

Which means that the Rate of Reproduction of the virus (R0, or R-naught value) would be lower.

 

A lower R-naught means that the virus spreads less.  This can be affected by human behavior.

 

If society puts the proper rules in place, and EVERYBODY WORKS TOGETHER to change their behavior in such a way that reduces transmission, we can change that R-naught value to under 1.0

 

At that point, the rate of spread decreases and decreases and decreases until it hits Virtually Zero spread.

 

The best example of that is the traditional flu virus. Because our social distancing and precautions with COVID, we actually ended up behaving in late 2020 in such a way that immediately lowered the NORMAL flu's rate of spread to below R0 = 1.0

 

The flu literally got reduced to zero during fall and winter 2020 in North America. That's not a fluke.

 

That is proof that WE CAN ACTUALLY MITIGATE THE THREAT.

 

Your anecdote about your girlfriend is irrelevant because she actually ended up being less of a threat than she would've been if she hadn't been vaccinated. She would've been shedding more virons to more people. (which is what you, inevitably, did).

Edited January 15, 2022 by jehurey

[Mr. House 3,371]

1 hour ago, jehurey said:

No, that's not wrong in the slightest.

 

People who are vaccinated would shed less virus (virons).

 

They wouldn't be coughing as bad as unvaccinated.

They wouldn't be sweating or excreting fluid as bad as the unvaccinated.

 

Which means that the Rate of Reproduction of the virus (R0, or R-naught value) would be lower.

 

A lower R-naught means that the virus spreads less.  This can be affected by human behavior.

 

If society puts the proper rules in place, and EVERYBODY WORKS TOGETHER to change their behavior in such a way that reduces transmission, we can change that R-naught value to under 1.0

 

At that point, the rate of spread decreases and decreases and decreases until it hits Virtually Zero spread.

 

The best example of that is the traditional flu virus. Because our social distancing and precautions with COVID, we actually ended up behaving in late 2020 in such a way that immediately lowered the NORMAL flu's rate of spread to below R0 = 1.0

 

The flu literally got reduced to zero during fall and winter 2020 in North America. That's not a fluke.

 

That is proof that WE CAN ACTUALLY MITIGATE THE THREAT.

 

Your anecdote about your girlfriend is irrelevant because she actually ended up being less of a threat than she would've been if she hadn't been vaccinated. She would've been shedding more virons to more people. (which is what you, inevitably, did).

The flu literally got reduced to zero during fall and winter 2020 in North America. That's not a fluke.

 

That's due to lockdowns, social distancing, masks and washing hands when entering a public place. Basic sanitary measures that I have no real problem with (except lockdowns aren't necessary anymore, imo), you never saw me complain about any of that. We are talking about the vaccine here.

 

I am all for mitigating, slowing the spread, saving our health care institution. I was even in favor of the lockdowns in the beginning.

 

But you're missing the point, she still got sick, still spread the disease, was actually sicker than me, cough up and sweat more than me as well. Of course I can't really know how bad it would have been if she didn't get the vaccine either. Still the problem is you can't act like it's the unvaccinated fault that this pandemic is ongoing, not at this point. Seems like every one is vulnerable to Omicron, thankfully it's also far milder than Delta and the original variant. Which is why at this point I thought we'd stopped threating the unvaccinated as the problem. I guessed wrong, they are now doubling down on the narrative, which blows my mind. 

[Twinblade★ 3,990]

1 hour ago, jehurey said:

No, that's not wrong in the slightest.

 

People who are vaccinated would shed less virus (virons).

 

They wouldn't be coughing as bad as unvaccinated.

They wouldn't be sweating or excreting fluid as bad as the unvaccinated.

 

Which means that the Rate of Reproduction of the virus (R0, or R-naught value) would be lower.

 

A lower R-naught means that the virus spreads less.  This can be affected by human behavior.

 

If society puts the proper rules in place, and EVERYBODY WORKS TOGETHER to change their behavior in such a way that reduces transmission, we can change that R-naught value to under 1.0

 

At that point, the rate of spread decreases and decreases and decreases until it hits Virtually Zero spread.

 

The best example of that is the traditional flu virus. Because our social distancing and precautions with COVID, we actually ended up behaving in late 2020 in such a way that immediately lowered the NORMAL flu's rate of spread to below R0 = 1.0

 

The flu literally got reduced to zero during fall and winter 2020 in North America. That's not a fluke.

 

That is proof that WE CAN ACTUALLY MITIGATE THE THREAT.

 

Your anecdote about your girlfriend is irrelevant because she actually ended up being less of a threat than she would've been if she hadn't been vaccinated. She would've been shedding more virons to more people. (which is what you, inevitably, did).

 

What your saying is true of the original strains, but im pretty sure there's no evidence that fully vaccinated people shed less of the omicron variant. In fact, fully vaccinated are people are catching omicon more easily than unvaccinated people even in places with high vaccination rates. So safe to say they're spreading it around as much as unvaccinated people if not more

 

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/studies-show-vaccinated-people-more-likely-to-catch-covid-19-than-the-unvaccinated/

 

 

[jehurey 3,299]

26 minutes ago, Ramza said:

The flu literally got reduced to zero during fall and winter 2020 in North America. That's not a fluke.

 

That's due to lockdowns, social distancing, masks and washing hands when entering a public place. Basic sanitary measures that I have no real problem with (except lockdowns aren't necessary anymore, imo), you never saw me complain about any of that. We are talking about the vaccine here.

 

I am all for mitigating, slowing the spread, saving our health care institution. I was even in favor of the lockdowns in the beginning.

 

But you're missing the point, she still got sick, still spread the disease,

No, you're missing the point.

 

She spread the disease LESS than you did because she was vaccinated.

 

She shed less virons than you did.

That's a plain fact.

 

And if everybody who did get infected were shedding less virons because they're vaccinated, the rate of spread goes down.

 

That's also a plain fact.

[jehurey 3,299]

11 minutes ago, Twinblade said:

 

What your saying is true of the original strains, but im pretty sure there's no evidence that fully vaccinated people shed less of the omicron variant

 

 

Yes there is.

 

Their days with symptoms are shorter, and they show less symptoms.

 

if you cough less, if you excrete less............you are shedding less virons.

 

so, unless you're swapping spit with somebody, the likelihood of that person spreading the virus as much as an unvaccinated person is less.

 

the way the virus spreads is the SAME its ever been. Water droplets, water transmission, or even if it were purely air transmission.

 

If you cough more, sneeze more, sweat more, you are shedding more virons.

[Goukosan 2,283]

22 minutes ago, Twinblade said:

 

What your saying is true of the original strains, but im pretty sure there's no evidence that fully vaccinated people shed less of the omicron variant. In fact, fully vaccinated are people are catching omicon more easily than unvaccinated people even in places with high vaccination rates. So safe to say they're spreading it around as much as unvaccinated people if not more

 

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/studies-show-vaccinated-people-more-likely-to-catch-covid-19-than-the-unvaccinated/

 

 

 

Did you actually read the study?  The study says nothing about fully vaccinated people catching Covid19 faster than unvaxxed. 

 

The study is about vaccine's effectiveness against Delta Vs Omicron.  It's comparing vaccinated people against themselves... Those with the booster vs those without the booster. 

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.20.21267966v3.full-text

 

By December 12, 2021, there were 5,767 identified Omicron cases in Denmark with a median age of 28 years (93% <60 years). Among those who had most recently completed primary vaccination, VE against Omicron was 55.2% (95% confidence interval: 23.5 to 73.7%) and 36.7% (−69.9 to 76.4%) for the BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 vaccines, respectively, but with evidence of rapid waning over the course of five months. By comparison, VE against Delta was significantly higher and better preserved over the same period

 

 

VE among those who had received a booster dose 14 to 44 days earlier was 54.6% (30.4 to 70.4%) using those with only primary vaccination as comparison

 

The article takes the information from the study and spins it to claim it talks about unvaxxed spreading it less than vaxxed.  If you actually took two seconds to fact check what you post you would have seen it was BS. 

 

The study shows the vaccines work well against Delta and work against omicron (at a lower effectiveness). It also shows that the booster helps against omicron (again at a lower effectiveness than Delta). 

 

Do better Twinblade. 

Edited January 15, 2022 by Goukosan

[Mr. Impossible 431]

16 hours ago, Goukosan said:

 

Did you actually read the study?  The study says nothing about fully vaccinated people catching Covid19 faster than unvaxxed. 

 

The study is about vaccine's effectiveness against Delta Vs Omicron.  It's comparing vaccinated people against themselves... Those with the booster vs those without the booster. 

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.20.21267966v3.full-text

 

By December 12, 2021, there were 5,767 identified Omicron cases in Denmark with a median age of 28 years (93% <60 years). Among those who had most recently completed primary vaccination, VE against Omicron was 55.2% (95% confidence interval: 23.5 to 73.7%) and 36.7% (−69.9 to 76.4%) for the BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 vaccines, respectively, but with evidence of rapid waning over the course of five months. By comparison, VE against Delta was significantly higher and better preserved over the same period

 

 

VE among those who had received a booster dose 14 to 44 days earlier was 54.6% (30.4 to 70.4%) using those with only primary vaccination as comparison

 

The article takes the information from the study and spins it to claim it talks about unvaxxed spreading it less than vaxxed.  If you actually took two seconds to fact check what you post you would have seen it was BS. 

 

The study shows the vaccines work well against Delta and work against omicron (at a lower effectiveness). It also shows that the booster helps against omicron (again at a lower effectiveness than Delta). 

 

Do better Twinblade. 

lol That's the best he can do. lol Fools coming in and deleting post but not replying to them. 

[Twinblade★ 3,990]

I just skimmed through, but I don't dedicate all of my free time to political arguments like you guys do so w/e.

[Mr. Impossible 431]

5 hours ago, Twinblade said:

I just skimmed through, but I don't dedicate all of my free time to political arguments like you guys do so w/e.

Lol this dirt bag. Yet some how he still thinks he's right. 

[Goukosan 2,283]

8 hours ago, Twinblade said:

I just skimmed through, but I don't dedicate all of my free time to political arguments like you guys do so w/e.

 

Nah you didn't skim shit, you Googled, read a headline and posted it without actually reading anything past the headline.

 

 

I actually skimmed it, as soon as you open the link to the paper it has a summary that tells you what it is about.  Took me less than a minute to read that. 

 

Like I said, do better. 

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Goukosan