sugarhigh 601 Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 It's wild to me how good liberals have been itching for increased tensions with Russia since 2014. Even echoing the state censorship (CISA) program's authoritarian language like "disinformation". The Democrats aren't even like a progressive reform coalition anymore, they're just straight up patriotic nationalists. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Impossible 567 Posted September 7 Author Share Posted September 7 17 minutes ago, sugarhigh said: It's wild to me how good liberals have been itching for increased tensions with Russia since 2014. Even echoing the state censorship (CISA) program's authoritarian language like "disinformation". The Democrats aren't even like a progressive reform coalition anymore, they're just straight up patriotic nationalists. Lol I don't think you even understand what you're saying. Link to post Share on other sites
Cooke 2,061 Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Just like Dick Cheney the architect of the Iraq war endorsing Kamala Harris. 😂 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Impossible 567 Posted September 8 Author Share Posted September 8 3 hours ago, Cooke said: It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Just like Dick Cheney the architect of the Iraq war endorsing Kamala Harris. 😂 What doesn't make sense? Explain it the people here who can't see things the way your feeble mind does. Link to post Share on other sites
sugarhigh 601 Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 5 hours ago, Mr. Impossible said: Lol I don't think you even understand what you're saying. No part of what I said is unclear or controversial. Link to post Share on other sites
Substatic 483 Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 (edited) On 2024-09-07 at 4:55 PM, Cooke said: It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You have a low IQ. We do not care if the ODNS, DOJ, and FBI's very clear claims do not make sense to you. The indictment makes this all extremely straight forward. Did you even read it? Can you even read that long of a document without having an aneurysm? Edited September 8 by Substatic Link to post Share on other sites
David P 156 Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 On 2024-09-07 at 3:04 PM, Mr. Impossible said: Lol.. Oh boy. How Canada produced both you and Cooke needs to be studied. I guess I assumed Canadians weren't as stupid as Americans can get but I was obviously wrong. It could be a semantics issue for me, but it's llke you invade a country out of nowhere. Take over 1/4 of it, then propose a cease fire where you keep the territories. To call it a peace treat sounds not applicable. Sure man, because proposing Putin should just pull it's armies out of Ukraine is a brilliant idea, very grounded and realistic. Totally achievable. It's that or Ukraine lose even more territories and men. A ceasefire or peace threaty isn't supposed to guarantee than we're back to the status quo before the conflict began. This is real life, not a movie where the good guys always win. Link to post Share on other sites
Goukosan 2,446 Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 On 2024-09-07 at 1:39 PM, Goukosan said: Once again you're proving my initial post about you trying to paint Ukraine as the one prolonging this and Russia as wanting peace. "The enemy (Ukraine) trying to retake their own territory in their own sovereign nation.... How dare they defend themselves within their own nation" .. Ramza still avoiding this post Link to post Share on other sites
David P 156 Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 14 hours ago, Goukosan said: Ramza still avoiding this post Russia = bad. Ukraine = good. Gookosan deep analysis in a nutshell. I'm not avoiding your post, there are simply barely worth responding to. Rather pointless point to make. This was never really a question. But the remainin fact is, if peace was Zelensky ultimate goal (it isn't) then he's doing a terrible job at it for several reasons. Zelensky peace plans are simply unrealistic. He just rejected Germany peace plan which entail that Ukraine would have to cede territories, which is unavoidable at this point in the war but Zelensky is delusional and believe in complete possible military victory and retaking Crimea/Donbas. Delusions of grandeur. Also he does not mind escalating the conflict. If it wasn't for NATO countries getting the cold feed in athorizing deep strikes in Russia, this war would be even uglier and we'd be closer to WW3 still. These are just facts. Not sure what you are trying to prove. If Zelensky truly wanted to dialogue with Russia and propose realistic peace plans he would do just that, he hasn't. Link to post Share on other sites
Goukosan 2,446 Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 1 hour ago, David P said: Russia = bad. Ukraine = good. Gookosan deep analysis in a nutshell. I'm not avoiding your post, there are simply barely worth responding to. Rather pointless point to make. This was never really a question. But the remainin fact is, if peace was Zelensky ultimate goal (it isn't) then he's doing a terrible job at it for several reasons. Zelensky peace plans are simply unrealistic. He just rejected Germany peace plan which entail that Ukraine would have to cede territories, which is unavoidable at this point in the war but Zelensky is delusional and believe in complete possible military victory and retaking Crimea/Donbas. Delusions of grandeur. Also he does not mind escalating the conflict. If it wasn't for NATO countries getting the cold feed in athorizing deep strikes in Russia, this war would be even uglier and we'd be closer to WW3 still. These are just facts. Not sure what you are trying to prove. If Zelensky truly wanted to dialogue with Russia and propose realistic peace plans he would do just that, he hasn't. You're still twisting into a pretzel to paint a sovereign nation that was invaded (Ukraine) as the one who is prolonging this by them defending themselves against the invaders (Russia). Link to post Share on other sites
David P 156 Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 4 hours ago, Goukosan said: You're still twisting into a pretzel to paint a sovereign nation that was invaded (Ukraine) as the one who is prolonging this by them defending themselves against the invaders (Russia). Mentioning facts is hardly trying to twist logic to fit a narrative. This is why I don't waste my time responding you because the Ukraine arguments with you always lead to most simple, narrow minded, black and white answers. This is like the 150th time you mentioned that Russia invaded Ukraine. Wow, thanks for the info and deep analysis. Not even sure what you are trying to get at. If anything NATO is prolonging the conflict by financing the war. I'm not blaming Ukraine for defending themselves. I'm saying Zelensky peace plans are shit and it does not mind escalating the conflict further, leaving even less room for a possible peaceful solution. Facts. End of story. Link to post Share on other sites
Goukosan 2,446 Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 7 minutes ago, David P said: Mentioning facts is hardly trying to twist logic to fit a narrative. This is why I don't waste my time responding you because the Ukraine arguments with you always lead to most simple, narrow minded, black and white answers. This is like the 150th time you mentioned that Russia invaded Ukraine. Wow, thanks for the info and deep analysis. Not even sure what you are trying to get at. If anything NATO is prolonging the conflict by financing the war. I'm not blaming Ukraine for defending themselves. I'm saying Zelensky peace plans are shit and it does not mind escalating the conflict further, leaving even less room for a possible peaceful solution. Facts. End of story. I keep mentioning it because you keep trying to paint Russia as the one who is interested in peace. Lmfao. Link to post Share on other sites
David P 156 Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 26 minutes ago, Goukosan said: I keep mentioning it because you keep trying to paint Russia as the one who is interested in peace. Lmfao. Russia has proposed several peace plans already. You think they want this conflict to continue on indefinitely without any treaties? Right. Once again, you bring nothing to the table and is simply ignorant on everything Ukraine. Link to post Share on other sites
Goukosan 2,446 Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 44 minutes ago, David P said: Russia has proposed several peace plans already. You think they want this conflict to continue on indefinitely without any treaties? Right. Once again, you bring nothing to the table and is simply ignorant on everything Ukraine. Post the peace plans/treaties that Russia came to the table with.... Not what they were rumored to, not what some you tuber or blogger thinks it was and what actions in good faith has Russia done to show that they are willing to seriously consider ending their invasion? Link to post Share on other sites
David P 156 Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 1 minute ago, Goukosan said: Post the peace plans/treaties that Russia came to the table with.... Not what they were rumored to, not what some you tuber or blogger thinks it was and what actions in good faith has Russia done to show that they are willing to seriously consider ending their invasion? Why? Link to post Share on other sites
Goukosan 2,446 Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 (edited) 3 hours ago, David P said: Why? You claim it is factual... So back it up Edited September 11 by Goukosan Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Impossible 567 Posted September 11 Author Share Posted September 11 4 hours ago, David P said: Why? To validate your point of view. Link to post Share on other sites
David P 156 Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 13 hours ago, Goukosan said: You claim it is factual... So back it up 12 hours ago, Mr. Impossible said: To validate your point of view. Ok, sure, just wanted to see how ignorant you guys are on the Ukraine war because this is common knowledge for anyone with even basic knowledge of this conflict. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_negotiations_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine Here's one of the latest proposal, not from a youtuber but straight from Putin's mouth. One of many. This one was borderline extorsion but it is a ceasefire plan that was proposed after a string of small wins from Russian on the eastern frontline. In a way this is pretty much all he ever wanted and only changes because of escalation. June 2024 In a speech on 14 June 2024, Putin outlined Russia's terms for a ceasefire. He said that Russia would not negotiate unless Ukraine handed over the provinces of Ukraine claimed by Russia: all of Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia oblasts, including the parts Russia does not control.[180][nb 1] Furthermore, he said that Ukraine had to abandon plans to join NATO, become a neutral country, and never seek to develop nuclear weapons. Putin added that the rights of Russian-speakers in Ukraine must be respected and that sanctions against Russia must be lifted to ensure peace.[180][nb 2] He claimed that the proposal "is not about freezing the conflict but about its final resolution", and said that if turned down by Ukraine and its allies, then it would be "their political and moral responsibility for continuing the bloodshed". Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Impossible 567 Posted September 11 Author Share Posted September 11 1 hour ago, David P said: Ok, sure, just wanted to see how ignorant you guys are on the Ukraine war because this is common knowledge for anyone with even basic knowledge of this conflict. Seeing as you barely understand what is happening in the United States, I sincerely doubt you are some how informed about fucking Ukraine. I fully admit to being barely informed about it, which is why I barely talk about it. I don't have that level of entitlement you and Cooke have where you talk confidently about topics you're completely ignorant about. 1 hour ago, David P said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_negotiations_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine Here's one of the latest proposal, not from a youtuber but straight from Putin's mouth. One of many. This one was borderline extorsion but it is a ceasefire plan that was proposed after a string of small wins from Russian on the eastern frontline. So you posted a Wikipedia article that basically outlines the many bad-faith cease fires Russia proposed, lies Putin told in order to start and maintain the war, and Putin turning down an agreement, by your own words "extortion." Which is funny because I've literally stated what Russia was doing was basically extortion. 1 hour ago, David P said: In a way this is pretty much all he ever wanted and only changes because of escalation. June 2024 In a speech on 14 June 2024, Putin outlined Russia's terms for a ceasefire. He said that Russia would not negotiate unless Ukraine handed over the provinces of Ukraine claimed by Russia: all of Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia oblasts, including the parts Russia does not control.[180][nb 1] Furthermore, he said that Ukraine had to abandon plans to join NATO, become a neutral country, and never seek to develop nuclear weapons. Putin added that the rights of Russian-speakers in Ukraine must be respected and that sanctions against Russia must be lifted to ensure peace.[180][nb 2] He claimed that the proposal "is not about freezing the conflict but about its final resolution", and said that if turned down by Ukraine and its allies, then it would be "their political and moral responsibility for continuing the bloodshed". Your own "proof" is a list demands in which Putin gets everything he wants from the Ukraine, completely prevents what would remain of Ukraine from protecting itself militarily, and also gets international sanctions removed from Russia, and seminal Russia just goes on about its business as usual. What a great deal for Ukraine! Link to post Share on other sites
Goukosan 2,446 Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 32 minutes ago, Mr. Impossible said: Seeing as you barely understand what is happening in the United States, I sincerely doubt you are some how informed about fucking Ukraine. I fully admit to being barely informed about it, which is why I barely talk about it. I don't have that level of entitlement you and Cooke have where you talk confidently about topics you're completely ignorant about. So you posted a Wikipedia article that basically outlines the many bad-faith cease fires Russia proposed, lies Putin told in order to start and maintain the war, and Putin turning down an agreement, by your own words "extortion." Which is funny because I've literally stated what Russia was doing was basically extortion. Your own "proof" is a list demands in which Putin gets everything he wants from the Ukraine, completely prevents what would remain of Ukraine from protecting itself militarily, and also gets international sanctions removed from Russia, and seminal Russia just goes on about its business as usual. What a great deal for Ukraine! Just like I thought @David P has no clue what he is talking about. Did he actually read what he posted? As I said Putin has not come to the table with any realistic peace proposals or made any actions in good faith towards brokering a deal. Instead Putin has broken all cease fires as he is not interested in peace, he is only interested in Ukraine's full and total surrender. Everything Ramza posted as proof contradicted itself Link to post Share on other sites
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