Yuji Hori and Shonen Jump EIC speak about frustration with America's regulations and how its affecting their games

[Mr. Impossible 588]

2 hours ago, David P said:

Concord selling poorly and insider information is not my opinion.

 

So are you actually this stupid or just being obtuse?

 

2 hours ago, David P said:

 

Where? You're the only one bringing up caucasian representation in Concord every time. I said specifically no amount of race swap could ever make this game look cool to anyone. 

 

Motherfucker, all of you keep doing is bringing up the black female characters so yeah. And a non-binary robot. Like even the play of a computer not being "binary" escaped your neanderthal brain, because you hate queer people so much. 

 

2 hours ago, David P said:

Catch all modern progressive leftist retardation buzzword. 

 

So you still can't actually state what woke means to you. From the outside, seems you mean non straight white men. 

 

2 hours ago, David P said:

 

Lol keep feigning ignorance. How is Concord woke? What is even woke? Robot with pronouns is nothing new. 

 

I stated that the state of "woke" doesn't make automatically make something good or bad. There are plenty of good "woke" content out there. It's just gate keeping weirdos like yourself who actively dislike groups of people, and woke allows you to be your little bigoted self while also feeling like you're the actual victim and are justified in your anger. There have always been bad games. Hell most games are bad. Most movies are bad. Most shows are bad. Some how bad entertainment has existed as long as entertainment has existed but coincidentally in the small window of time that diversity and inclusion has become trendy -everything bad is exclusively bad because of this one thing...woke. So if they make sure to put less black women and gays in everything to make you happy,  everything automatically becomes good? That your logic? 

 

2 hours ago, David P said:

 

Shut up you fucking faggy bitch.  

 

Still at it, again. Lmao, this vegan fgt.

 

You do realize that was years ago at this point? I'm over it but I guess you are not. 

 

Yeah, you seem totally over it. 

[David P 189]

3 hours ago, Goukosan said:

I posted the update with FACTS of the situation and quoted the OP.  Sorry if FACTS hurt your feelings kid. 

I'm talking about a different game altogether. Are you stupid? I couldn't care less about the DQ discussion.

 

3 hours ago, Goukosan said:

Doesn't matter if you specifically didn't mention DQ

Yes it does, you are dumb.

 

3 hours ago, Goukosan said:

but you were using the thread to get rilled up and back up your opinion in regards to the underlying subject and and tried tie it to another game.

Has nothing to do at all with DQ. I don't even care about DQ censorship and I intend to play the game day one. So much for being riled up.

 

3 hours ago, Goukosan said:

Your dumbass always gets riled up over fake shit you easily duped simpleton and you fall for it everytime without fail

What fake shit? First you can't even read my posts and now you are accusing of peddling fake news despite CLEARLY not knowing what I'm talking about.

 

You could have just admitted you had no idea I wasn't talking about Dragon Quest and move on but you had to embarrass yourself some more. Lmao.

Edited Thursday at 03:52 PM by David P

[David P 189]

24 minutes ago, Mr. Impossible said:

Motherfucker, all of you keep doing is bringing up the black female characters so yeah. And a non-binary robot. Like even the play of a computer not being "binary" escaped your neanderthal brain, because you hate queer people so much. 

That's your fucked up interpretation. The problem isn't that the characters are black. It's just blatant pandering. Swapping the races wouldn't make any of the lame designs any better as I've said four times already.

 

The robot is a he/him you fucking idiot. Self owned.

 

Of course in your twisted, delusional mind, a robot with pronouns on a character select screen is not pandering and perfectly normal. This is why I call you dishonest.

[David P 189]

28 minutes ago, Mr. Impossible said:

I stated that the state of "woke" doesn't make automatically make something good or bad.

That's true. They are ways to create content that is political without the end product being worse by default, it can actually be a strenght in an artistic vision.

 

But it's not going to come out of DEI 'experts' in a soulless corporate environment. The type of people who hates their main consumers base and cares more about their political messaging than the end product. That's 100% Concord in a nutshell.  

[Mr. Impossible 588]

On 2024-09-30 at 6:01 PM, Remij said:

Not to this degree of lunacy. 

 

 

You think when devs were putting in things like Bayonetta slapping her pussy, Sex scenes in God of War, or Dave BMX XXX didn't have constant clashes? As "spicy" as queer characters are, I've yet to seen any controversial game "woke" game characters. All the "wokeness" is 9/10 as surface as possible. Most on-screen gay characters barely have a romance or even kiss scene. It's not like devs are making homo-simulators, it's basically like a skin. 

 

On 2024-09-30 at 6:01 PM, Remij said:

Obviously parents have always been concerned about their children seeing violence or sex... but this isn't that.

 

 

 

On 2024-09-30 at 6:01 PM, Remij said:

I'm referring to the corporate "rational" for pushing and pressuring these studios to conform to changing standards.. which is on the basis of inclusion.  There's always been age ratings... and I never said anything about race.

 

What are some examples of the standards devs need to meet and how do they adversely affect projects. So far the only things that have come up in this thread are a select screen dialog box, and the artistic design choices of characters. Neither of which are game breaking on their own or at all honestly. 

 

 

On 2024-09-30 at 6:01 PM, Remij said:

 

Of course.. but they're not doing it to reach a more diverse group of people... Like he said, you can't make everyone happy.  They're forced to do it to ensure that they follow standards and remain eligible for funding... on top of being able to do business in other countries in the first place...

 

They are doing it for what they believe appeals to a large waiting, fanbase

 

On 2024-09-30 at 6:01 PM, Remij said:

It's simply a way to sidestep the issue. 

 

Which is fine. I like doers. Compromises means neither side gets everything what they want. 

 

On 2024-09-30 at 6:01 PM, Remij said:

It's obvious why the change was made.. and now we know they think the fact that they had to do it is ridiculous.  Don't you agree?  I mean does changing the names to Type A and Type B really solve a problem?  Everyone knows Type A is male and Type B is female..  So yes, it's completely ridiculous that some group of people think that change had to be made at the risk of not offending someone.

 

If I had to make a list of 100 things wrong with gaming, that wouldn't make it on it. There's also so many existing games that dont say male female and just use symbols with for either. Or games because of selectable genders/create-a-characters use "They" as a catch-all pronoun instead of he/she for convenience. So this is a nit-pick in my opinion. 

 

On 2024-09-30 at 6:01 PM, Remij said:

 

Yeah, it's so fucking stupid.  I cringe every time I see that shit on my twitter timeline, and it happens without fail at any new thing.  This Ghost of Yotei shit was just the latest.  Now they've dug up everything on the person playing the lead character, and it's all about her and her politics...  So lame.

 

 

I think it's nuanced, because people can hate "forced" diversity for legitimate reasons, but yet also support true diversity in games and game development.  One of the recent things that disappointed me and really proved that a lot of these people were full of shit was the release of Tales of Kenzera: Zau.  A game that was created entirely by a studio of black creators, created by a black person, and that they worked with Sweet Baby Inc... causing a big controversy about the game, taking all the discussion away from the game itself and turning it into bullshit about race and DEI with people boycotting it.  That was a new game, with a new protagonist, created by a new studio, specifically created to tell stories about African culture...  It was exactly the type of game that they claimed they would support... but it turns out that for that group of people it's not about actual diversity in gaming and creation, they just want controversy.  Those people can go to hell. 

 

[Goukosan 2,460]

51 minutes ago, David P said:

I'm talking about a different game altogether. Are you stupid? I couldn't care less about the DQ discussion.

 

Yes it does, you are dumb.

 

Has nothing to do at all with DQ. I don't even care about DQ censorship and I intend to play the game day one. So much for being riled up.

 

What fake shit? First you can't even read my posts and now you are accusing of peddling fake news despite CLEARLY not knowing what I'm talking about.

 

You could have just admitted you had no idea I wasn't talking about Dragon Quest and move on but you had to embarrass yourself some more. Lmao.

 

Are you dense? I quoted the OP dumbass im my response.  The comment about me posting the updated facts about the situation is in relation to the OP which my original post quoted. 

 

I tagged you at the bottom of the said post because you're doing ITT exactly what Yuji told the clowns on the internet to stop doing.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 04:44 PM by Goukosan

[Mr. Impossible 588]

22 minutes ago, David P said:

That's your fucked up interpretation. The problem isn't that the characters are black. It's just blatant pandering. Swapping the races wouldn't make any of the lame designs any better as I've said four times already.

 

 

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The robot is a he/him you fucking idiot. Self owned.

 

So the robot looks male, dresses in male clothing, and uses male pro-nouns...so what the fuck are you complaining about? The mere existence of a pro-noun? 

 

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Of course in your twisted, delusional mind, a robot with pronouns on a character select screen is not pandering and perfectly normal. This is why I call you dishonest.

 

I can always live with pandering, commercialism, nostalgia, and fan service in small doses or doesn't adversely impact the overall product. Pronouns in a CAW doesn't even register a nit-picking level of an issue to me. 

 

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If this shit isn't woke when they were proudly advertising a having pansexual black female, a robot with pronouns and a trans inspired character then I don't know what woke is.

 

Again, you only ever mention race and sexuality when you're talking about "woke" things. I'm not reaching here. I've asked you 21 times to define woke this week. I've been asking for almost 2 years and you still can't tell us what you consider woke. However when you talk about woke, you usually land on this train of thought. Just like when you talking about Trans people, the next thing out of your mouth is about women being exploited/taken advantage of by Trans people. You're so stupid you dont even realize how your brain associates the people you claim you dont hate, but only ever talk about negatively. 

Edited Thursday at 04:22 PM by Mr. Impossible

[kaz 2,507]

On 2024-10-01 at 8:10 PM, Playstation Tablet said:

I mean I'm pro LGBT but stuff like non binary or gender fluid sounds like non sense.

 

sure buddy, you also like to support the murder of innocent people 

[David P 189]

3 hours ago, Goukosan said:

 

Are you dense? I quoted the OP dumbass im my response.  The comment about me posting the updated facts about the situation is in relation to the OP which my original post quoted. 

 

I tagged you at the bottom of the said post because you're doing ITT exactly what Yuji told the clowns on the internet to stop doing.

 

 

You should just have admitted you didn't read my posts before opening your foul mouth. Can't believe you're tripling down on your stupidity. The ego on this one. Lmao.

 

So you're saying I was fed misinformation about Concord being woke? OK, how exactly? Prove it or shut the fuck up.

 

 

 

 

[David P 189]

3 hours ago, Mr. Impossible said:

I can always live with pandering, commercialism, nostalgia, and fan service in small doses or doesn't adversely impact the overall product. Pronouns in a CAW doesn't even register a nit-picking level of an issue to me

The point was not how much it bothers me. I couldn't give a shit on a personnal level.

 

The point is that anyone doing this is obviously pandering to woke snowflake.

 

3 hours ago, Mr. Impossible said:

Again, you only ever mention race and sexuality when you're talking about "woke" things. I'm not reaching here. I've asked you 21 times to define woke this week. I've been asking for almost 2 years and you still can't tell us what you consider woke. However when you talk about woke, you usually land on this train of thought. Just like when you talking about Trans people, the next thing out of your mouth is about women being exploited/taken advantage of by Trans people. You're so stupid you dont even realize how your brain associates the people you claim you dont hate, but only ever talk about negatively. 

Just because I hate pandering soulless corporate trash doesn't mean I hate black people and trans. I shouldn't even have to specify this but you are that dumb and judgmental.

 

It's not the inclusivity itself that is the issue, just that the product has no soul whatsoever. The political activism came before the artistic vision.

 

You asking for the definition of woke is the most dishonest shit I ever heard. You know exactly what I mean by woke. Fuck off, I'm not playing your game.

[Remij 5,068]

9 hours ago, Goukosan said:

 

Turns out it was a purposely mistranslated and maliciously taken out of context as parts of the vid were deliberately cut out.   

 

 

Good to know this, but I wish they would have provided better clarity as to what was cut out, since I don't think the general sentiment of the discussion changes much, at least from what they used in their examples of mistranslations.  Nobody is saying that they hate a certain ideology or that it's wrong, but that it seems rather ridiculous from their point of view.

 

The point still remains that to do business in this and other countries they have to follow standards and guidelines, and are undoubtedly pressured by the corporate side to conform to changing norms whether they believe in them or not.

[Remij 5,068]

7 hours ago, Mr. Impossible said:

 

You think when devs were putting in things like Bayonetta slapping her pussy, Sex scenes in God of War, or Dave BMX XXX didn't have constant clashes? As "spicy" as queer characters are, I've yet to seen any controversial game "woke" game characters. All the "wokeness" is 9/10 as surface as possible. Most on-screen gay characters barely have a romance or even kiss scene. It's not like devs are making homo-simulators, it's basically like a skin. 

I think we're referring to different things.  I agree with what you're saying here, but I think there's a difference between someone seeing something inappropriate, and something that offends one's beliefs or personal identity.  I think when you start going as far as removing gender names from an option select screen because it risks offending someone, is moving to the side of ridiculous.  To me, that's true regardless of where the idea came from. 

 

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What are some examples of the standards devs need to meet and how do they adversely affect projects. So far the only things that have come up in this thread are a select screen dialog box, and the artistic design choices of characters. Neither of which are game breaking on their own or at all honestly.

I don't think they adversely affect projects.. at least not from what we've seen at this point personally.  People that are more easily offended than me might try to say some bullshit for arguments sake I suppose.  I'd would maybe argue that the way they affect projects may largely be unknown to us as in some cases it calls to question whether studios are compelled to change aspects of the game and design and whether the game they developed is truly their own creation.

 

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They are doing it for what they believe appeals to a large waiting, fanbase

Sure.  Obviously they already know as a international publisher of games that there are differing standards between the West and the East... but they are very clearly calling out specific aspects which are pushing it even further than before, and are apparently concerned how it might change things in Japan.   They're both very old and have seen a lot of change throughout their time.. it's completely understandable to my mind that they'd think it's kind of silly to be doing the things they're doing to appeal to everyone.

 

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Which is fine. I like doers. Compromises means neither side gets everything what they want. 

I think it works in this case.  These are old RPGs.. it's an easy alteration to make because the characters don't have that much character to begin with.  RPGs are all about building a character, often from nothing, and morphing that character in the ways you want.  However, I can still think it's ridiculous that someone, somewhere, decided that this change should be made, because someone might be offended by seeing the words Male/Female... despite knowing exactly that Type A is male and Type B is female. lol

 

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If I had to make a list of 100 things wrong with gaming, that wouldn't make it on it. There's also so many existing games that dont say male female and just use symbols with for either. Or games because of selectable genders/create-a-characters use "They" as a catch-all pronoun instead of he/she for convenience. So this is a nit-pick in my opinion. 

Everyone knows what the symbols mean, they know exactly what each represents.. same for type A and type B.  You're already literally internally making the decision to be a male character or a female character when deciding which to choose. Like I say, it's fine in games where you're meant to customize every aspect of the character to be precisely how you want them to be.. but all I ask is that in games which don't give you that freedom, that they're not condemned for it.

 

I agree though, it's not anything close to being a top issue in gaming lol.

Edited Thursday at 11:54 PM by Remij

[Mr. Impossible 588]

19 hours ago, David P said:

The point was not how much it bothers me. I couldn't give a shit on a personnal level.

 

The point is that anyone doing this is obviously pandering to woke snowflake.

 

So "woke" just covers everything with you. 

 

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Just because I hate pandering soulless corporate trash doesn't mean I hate black people and trans. I shouldn't even have to specify this but you are that dumb and judgmental.

 

This is the first time you've ever mentioned corporations or commercialization. Yet you've mentioned queer people of color multiple times in this thread alone. Lol 😂 

 

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It's not the inclusivity itself that is the issue, just that the product has no soul whatsoever. The political activism came before the artistic vision.

 

It's disingenuous to claim that you don't like obvious pandering while also complaining that the game didn't pander enough...to you. 

 

You're upset about who you feel they are pandering too. If they pandered to horny teenage boys or adult incels that would be fine right? "sex appeal" as you put it... For a videogame character. 

 

If the game was full of big titty alien strippers fighting in the mud dimension, you wouldn't care about how pandering it is was. 

 

You're some how incapable of understanding how discrimination works. How you treat , or want people of different cultural group treated with more skepticism and animosity than they deserve is the literal definition of prejudice. 

 

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You asking for the definition of woke is the most dishonest shit I ever heard. You know exactly what I mean by woke. Fuck off, I'm not playing your game.

 

Lmfao in what reality can an adult literally not define a word,  or come up with a synonym for what they mean. You have a post grad degree and you can't articulate yourself without a single political buzzword you can't even define. 

 

It's like when you were using groomer and didn't know what it was. You're fucking Canadian, why do you and Cooke consume so much right wing American media? 

Edited 12 hours ago by Mr. Impossible

[Mr. Impossible 588]

23 hours ago, Remij said:

I think we're referring to different things.  I agree with what you're saying here, but I think there's a difference between someone seeing something inappropriate, and something that offends one's beliefs or personal identity. 

 

Sort of a distinction without a difference. A lot of people end up reacting the same way. They can't view things outside of themselves. 

 

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I think when you start going as far as removing gender names from an option select screen because it risks offending someone, is moving to the side of ridiculous.  To me, that's true regardless of where the idea came from. 

 

That's fair, and feels like something that's suggested more commonly but I can't imagine it alone will prevent a game from being made at all. 

 

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I don't think they adversely affect projects.. at least not from what we've seen at this point personally.  People that are more easily offended than me might try to say some bullshit for arguments sake I suppose.  I'd would maybe argue that the way they affect projects may largely be unknown to us as in some cases it calls to question whether studios are compelled to change aspects of the game and design and whether the game they developed is truly their own creation.

 

I'll expand from affecting developments to actually affecting quality of the product. By today's standards GTA V and RDR2 are "woke" so using woke as a pejorative seems more a reflection of the person than anything. Made worse when people like David can't actually articulate

 

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Sure.  Obviously they already know as a international publisher of games that there are differing standards between the West and the East... but they are very clearly calling out specific aspects which are pushing it even further than before, and are apparently concerned how it might change things in Japan. 

 

 

As EIC of Shonen Jump he's most likely aware of how close minded Americans can be as well. There's plenty of material in popular Manga and Anime that would anger the same woke-watchers who agree with him on this one topic if they saw it. Also, Shonen Jump is read by more girls than American comics are...in America,for a reason. They produce content they want to read. 

 

This is why I don't take this sentiment seriously. Eventually everyone falls prey to the anti-fandom. Eventually the leopards will eat their faces too. 

 

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They're both very old and have seen a lot of change throughout their time.. it's completely understandable to my mind that they'd think it's kind of silly to be doing the things they're doing to appeal to everyone.

 

I don't find anything they said to be objectionable. It might help to keep in mind that we're talking about the politics of very old Japanese men, so there is going to be some problematic things they find to be normal. I love plenty of OGs that have the worst point of views on stuff. 

 

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I think it works in this case.  These are old RPGs.. it's an easy alteration to make because the characters don't have that much character to begin with.  RPGs are all about building a character, often from nothing, and morphing that character in the ways you want.  However, I can still think it's ridiculous that someone, somewhere, decided that this change should be made, because someone might be offended by seeing the words Male/Female... despite knowing exactly that Type A is male and Type B is female. lol

 

There's no official organization of Woke. The marginalized people we're talking about aren't advocating for everything they stand for to be prioritized in everything that exist all of the time. They just want to be represented fairly every so often. 

 

Entertainment is a trend chasing industry and there has been some over correcting of past sins. 

 

Advertising used to be entirely about white males 18 to 35, the male gaze, and families gathered around a single television. Now everyone has their own screen, watch shows whenever they want,  and they track what people are searching, talking about, and spending money on. 

 

My first job out of school was at Marvel and even back then creative was desperate to crack the female audience like Manga had for a few years at that point. This was way before the MCU, so we had to get reader interest up without live action representations of the characters. 

There's a good amount of throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. 

 

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Everyone knows what the symbols mean, they know exactly what each represents.. same for type A and type B.  You're already literally internally making the decision to be a male character or a female character when deciding which to choose. Like I say, it's fine in games where you're meant to customize every aspect of the character to be precisely how you want them to be.. but all I ask is that in games which don't give you that freedom, that they're not condemned for it.

 

I've seen uppity reviews that'll mention "where the diversity" in critiques but I don't think I've ever seen anyone make 25 videos about how one game isn't woke. I guess it's been a year since Star Field and someone made a video about that raging idiot about pronouns.

 

Apparently he had been streaming the game for like 5 or 6 hours at that point. Had mostly kind things to say about the game, and some minor criticisms. Up til he got to the pronouns, then lost his shit and his entire time after that was negative. It legit ruined the game for him. 

 

How do we navigate making people like him happy? And he's sadly not the extreme in the either. Look how many people here who consider themselves liberal or moderate who can't blaming everything on women or the LGBTQ community? Who just coincidentally also don't like woke shit. It's never a woke critic going off the deep end and crashing out about how media is made. 

 

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I agree though, it's not anything close to being a top issue in gaming lol.

 

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