I think Sony got caught off guard with the PS5 :francis:

[Remij 4,676]

I think the reason why they've been so quiet and hum-ho in the past bit is due to figuring out how they are going to paint and market their specs in a brighter light.  Apparently they're struggling internally about specs they've chosen.  The slower RAM being one of them..

 

Obviously they're going to focus on the SSD, but it's quite obvious that they scrambled to push extra clocks out of the PS5 in an effort to not look so far behind their competitor.  It sounds like there's so many caveats to that "10TF" of performance... and you have to remember that they have less memory bandwidth as well for graphics critical tasks.  I feel like MS played it perfectly by having 10GB of high speed RAM that's much faster than what the PS5 has, and 6GB (3.5GB+2.5GB) of slower ram for CPU tasks and OS.  It's essentially like a RAM/VRAM setup from a PC, except it appears unified to the developers to use how they wish.  Apparently BCPack could possibly give 20% better compression for textures over Kraken as well.. but we don't know all the details of either's compression systems in practice.

 

The other thing is Ray tracing.  Yes, PS5 will support it... but I get the feeling that they are definitely downplaying it in comparison to MS.. and for good reason.  We already know that because the Series X has more CUs, it has more RT "intersection engines"..  Yes, Sony has bumped frequencies to help mitigate this... but having far less... and no guarantee that those clocks will be sustained at all, points to MS having a clear advantage.

 

The other thing is that Nvidia, AMD, and MS have come together on the PC side of things to establish a baseline for the future.  This is a lot bigger of a deal than people realize, because developers are FAR more likely to support and take advantage of those features.  I can see cases where possibly PC and Xbox versions of games have RT features and effects that either aren't supported, or are less feature rich on PS5.  All future Nvidia and AMD gpus will support this baseline.. which will very quickly saturate the market with GPUs capable of that featureset.

 

I wish Sony would have talked more about features of their hardware, because right now we still don't know if PS5 has equivalent features to what MS has announced with Series X.  MS could have more of an edge than people realize.. even with the slower SSD... but then again, Sony could as well. 

 

How that translates to games.. we'll have to see.   But this is far more interesting of a gen hardware-wise than I was ever expecting.  

Edited March 22, 2020 by Remij_

[Playstation Tablet 1,725]

Outside of forum lalala land discussions about irrelevant magic unicorn ssds and gen defining 15 percent power differences. The real thing that caught Sony off guard is their 450+ BOM when they are trying to repeat the magic of 399.

[Remij 4,676]

 

 

[Playstation Tablet 1,725]

Secret sauces never deliver. A 2.4gbps isn't outperforming a 5.5 Gbps SSD. 448gbps RAM isn't out performing 520gbps.

 

There is no magic comeback. Sony had a weaker system. XBox had a lamer SSD. It's that simple.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Team 2019

[Playstation Tablet 1,725]

You got be smoking some hard shit to think the PS5 SSD can change game design in anyway that the X SSD can't. And you got to be smoking some hard shit to think the PS5 and X gpu difference won't be anything other more than a more aggressive dynamic ress scaler.

 

The systems are in real world terms almost identical. The fight is over nothing. X is the better designed system without a doubt no sane perform prefers an I/O device over more power. But the differences are trivial.

[Remij 4,676]

1 minute ago, Team 2019 said:

Secret sauces never deliver. A 2.4gbps isn't outperforming a 5.5 Gbps SSD. 448gbps RAM isn't out performing 520gbps.

 

There is no magic comeback.

I think you're wrong.  I have no idea how sequential speeds of these drives means one will perform so much better in the real world than the other.  Sequential speeds are not a good indicator of real world performance... we already know that from the PC.  What matters are the details that they AREN'T telling you.

 

As for this "secret sauce"... texture compression is not a myth...  it has real world implications.  The better they can compress textures, the more memory is available for either more textures or other stuff.  Not only that... in conjunction with Sampler Feedback.. they can only load the parts of the textures that they need.. meaning they're only storing fractions of those textures in RAM.. further freeing up more memory.

 

ANY developer will tell you that memory is the most precious resource they have.

 

Regardless of whether MS actually has any advantage over Sony in this regard... what this signals is a HUGE MONUMENTAL jump from the previous gen..  Developers are going to be VERY happy.

[Remij 4,676]

1 minute ago, Team 2019 said:

You got be smoking some hard shit to think the PS5 SSD can change game design in anyway that the X SSD can't. And you got to be smoking some hard shit to think the PS5 and X gpu difference won't be anything other more than a more aggressive dynamic ress scaler.

 

The systems are in real world terms almost identical. The fight is over nothing. X is the better designed system without a doubt no sane perform prefers an I/O device over more power. But the differences are trivial.

lol we'll see.  I think they're more different than people appreciate from the hardware side.. but yea, I'm definitely not saying that either will do things the other couldn't.  I think regardless, the improvements to efficiency and hardware features are going to make this gen far more interesting between the two.

 

God I cannot fucking wait to see Forza and GT on SeriesX/PC and PS5 respectively.  Shit is going to look REAL.

[Playstation Tablet 1,725]

Dude the jump from a 5400 RPM HDD to an SSD is huge. The jump from 2.4 to 5.5, even if the compression is identical won't make a lick of difference in 95 percent of games. Like the war over an I/O device is pretty laughable and just highlights how much ADHD gamers have. First it's bits, then teraflops, now it's SSDs.

[lynux3 2,078]

 

[Remij 4,676]

1 minute ago, Team 2019 said:

Dude the jump from a 5400 RPM HDD to an SSD is huge. The jump from 2.4 to 5.5, even if the compression is identical won't make a lick of difference in 95 percent of games. Like the war over an I/O device is pretty laughable and just highlights how much ADHD gamers have. First it's bits, then teraflops, now it's SSDs.

Dude... you might want to hold off on proclaiming that too loudly.

 

The HDD to SSD is huge indeed... and 2.4 to 5.5 is also huge... don't discount it.  But more than the speed of the drive, it's more important how their compression works.

 

Sony may have a huge advantage too.  I don't know if it's true or not, but there's rumors that with PS5's SSD speed and their custom I/O block.. they can load the state of the OS almost instantly.  What people are speculating is that Sony may have almost all of the 16GB of RAM available to developers for games with just .5GB or 1GB stored for the OS.  So that could be 15GB usable compared to 13.5 for the Xbox.

 

I'm not so sure about that.. but that could be an advantage for Sony.

[Remij 4,676]

3 minutes ago, lynux3 said:

 

They were obviously caught off guard with MS' specs man.. it's fucking obvious  

 

If MS matches them price-wise... LOL

Edited March 22, 2020 by Remij_

[Playstation Tablet 1,725]

1. Sony was planning a 2019 launch with 36CUs RDNA1 probably at around 1.8ghz so the 8 tflops rumour was true.

2. 2019 flopped so they upped it to 2.0ghz and a respectable 9.2 tflops

3. 9.2 tflops was a marketing disaster, so they threw a significant amount of money on cooling to hit double digits.

 

 

Also the GitHub leak suggests PS5 used 18gbps RAM chips not 14gbps like now. So they downgraded the RAM in hopes of 399.

[Remij 4,676]

1 minute ago, Team 2019 said:

1. Sony was planning a 2019 launch with 36CUs RDNA1 probably at around 1.8ghz so the 8 tflops rumour was true.

2. 2019 flopped so they upped it to 2.0ghz and a respectable 9.2 tflops

3. 9.2 tflops was a marketing disaster, so they threw a significant amount of money on cooling to hit double digits.

 

 

Also the GitHub leak suggests PS5 used 18gbps RAM chips not 14gbps like now. So they downgraded the RAM in hopes of 399.

Apparently Sony was internally fighting over 16gbps ram vs 14... and settled on 14.  

 

The thing sounds like a bit of a mess.  They definitely bumped the clocks because they realized that Series X was far ahead.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Remij_

[Playstation Tablet 1,725]

Can someone remind me why the PS5 SSD is 825 gigs again, not 1tb? What did Cerny say. I forgot.

[Remij 4,676]

1 minute ago, Team 2019 said:

Can someone remind me why the PS5 SSD is 825 gigs again, not 1tb? What did Cerny say. I forgot.

To reduce costs.

 

Because it's prohibitively expensive...  These are chips faster than the fastest PC shit... it doesn't necessarily mean $399.. lol

Edited March 22, 2020 by Remij_

[lynux3 2,078]

Just now, Remij_ said:

They were obviously caught off guard with MS' specs man.. it's fucking obvious  

 

If MS matches them price-wise... LOL

There's no such thing as being caught off guard. These decisions were set in stone years ago.

 

But I was laughing at the stupid secret sauce you keep hyping.  I like how the guy dodged your question about whether it was "excoosive to mfst ".

 

Microsoft already released the specification for their SSD, it's not getting any better. 2.4GB/s raw and 4.8GB/s compressed.

[Playstation Tablet 1,725]

I'm be willing to bet my right testicle that if there was no planned 2019 launch, and 36CUs were not necessary for BC. The PS5 would be using a slow and wide APU just like the X.

 

As for SSD, Cerny got too excited, unless it's not much more expensive than the X SSD it's not worth the price in BOM.

[lynux3 2,078]

3 minutes ago, Team 2019 said:

Can someone remind me why the PS5 SSD is 825 gigs again, not 1tb? What did Cerny say. I forgot.

Because that was the best way to marry 12 channels and the NAND flash.

[Playstation Tablet 1,725]

2 minutes ago, lynux3 said:

There's no such thing as being caught off guard. These decisions were set in stone years ago.

 

 

Spot on. They did exactly what they planned. 36 CUs, BC, and super fast SSD. Only thing they messed around is clockspeed, but that's just them adjusting their design from years before.

[Remij 4,676]

1 minute ago, lynux3 said:

There's no such thing as being caught off guard. These decisions were set in stone years ago.

 

But I was laughing at the stupid secret sauce you keep hyping.  I like how the guy dodged your question about whether it was "excoosive to mfst ".

 

Microsoft already released the specification for their SSD, it's not getting any better. 2.4GB/s raw and 4.8GB/s compressed.

lmao... yes there is.  They were caught off guard... and have been spending all this time struggling on how to market the fucking thing compared to 12TF Xbox. 

 

And yea... keep laughing..