AMD confirms first FSR3 games

[Substatic 421]

18 hours ago, Remij said:

 

Well, inherently fixed platforms will be easier to optimize for.. that much is obvious.

 

However, there's a difference between optimization, and buggy, unfinished releases... of which I'd agree there have been many recently, which speaks more of lack of QA and polish than optimization.  A lot of what Alex has referred to when talking about "Lousy PC ports" is basic things not working or being implemented correctly.. I mean the guy knocks games for not having the style of options menu that he likes..  Which is fine, because I agree that it can and should be better.  The biggest offenders were the games that had released which didn't pre-compile shaders, but since DF and gamers have spoken up about them, things have gotten much better and most games now do pre-compile.

 

These recent "taxing" games and the general discourse around Unreal Engine 5 being heavy.. is because a lot of people simply don't understand the sheer amount of work that it has to do per frame.  And with UE5.. it's not only the GPU.. the CPU is rasterizing much of the tiny polygons, add to that how cranking up the resolution also increases the load on the CPU, because the amount of polys scales with resolution.   It's like with Ray Tracing.. people will only see the performance hit at first... none of these examples out currently do that great of a job at showcasing what UE5 is capable of... and much like RT.. it will take more proper examples for people to become accustomed to the improvement.  You could literally argue that reconstruction IS the optimization that needs to happen for this type of renderer... 

 

Anyway.. since you brought up Alex... here's Alex arguing against exactly what Twinblade said..

 

 

 

Ironically, some of the games Alex complains about in the video Goku posted were said to be explicitly better on PC than PS5 by Digital Foundry (his very source) months prior to those videos. Like Spider-Man and MM. That means even poor PC ports are better than console versions, which is something that's been apparent to be for quite a while. Fortunately, most of those games have been long fixed to further the gap. Many of his complaints are UI related.

 

This is still something that needs to be worked on, and a clear problem for PC. I'm not excusing it just because my system (4080/7800X3D) can brute force a mid/bad port to be far better than the permanently unfixable slideshow 30-50 fps medium/low PS5 version for most games.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Substatic

[Twinblade★ 3,930]

16 minutes ago, Substatic said:

 

Ironically, some of the games Alex complains about in the video Goku posted were said to be explicitly better on PC than PS5 by Digital Foundry (his very source) months prior to those videos. Like Spider-Man and MM. That means even poor PC ports are better than console versions, which is something that's been apparent to be for quite a while. Fortunately, most of those games have been long fixed to further the gap. Many of his complaints are UI related.

 

This is still something that needs to be worked on, and a clear problem for PC. I'm not excusing it just because my system (4080/7800X3D) can brute force a mid/bad port to be far better than the permanently unfixable slideshow 30-50 fps medium/low PS5 version for most games.

 

 

 

Enough with the PC gaming propaganda nonsense. PC gaming has lost the vast majority of its advantages compared to consoles in the last few years. It only has an upper hand with framerate in some games, but even thats becoming less relevant especially considering how many PC ports are poorly optimized and run poorly even on high end hardware.

[Substatic 421]

30 minutes ago, Twinblade said:

 

Enough with the PC gaming propaganda nonsense. PC gaming has lost the vast majority of its advantages compared to consoles in the last few years. It only has an upper hand with framerate in some games, but even thats becoming less relevant especially considering how many PC ports are poorly optimized and run poorly even on high end hardware.

 

Nothing I said was false. These games had such low fps on consoles that I still had a major advantage. You guys just don't have enough people with high standards like Alex. You eat that 30 fps slop up, while I play it at 60-120. If yours runs at 60 I play it at 120+.  I said it's a clear problem on PC, but with high end hardware you can brute force the games to run much better on PC than PS5. Like no shot I'm playing these games at 30-40 fps on medium when I run them 80+ high.  Like Diablo 4, REmake, Jedi Survivor(fixed), and BG3 - literally twice the FPS on my Rig than PS5. For Starfield it'll probably be 3x. I'm told Ratchet was fixed week 1 and now runs 90+ which would be 3x than PS5.

The biggest advantage of PC was always the library and higher FPS, pretty sure it's still winning in that regard just like it did last gen. A vast majority of advantages were lost because of  a few shitty ports that also ran shitty on consoles? Give me a break.

 

It's not perfect. Shit releases fucked up. We should demand better and be upset. My brute for method should not be the main way. It sucks. But that doesn't mean the shitty console version is automatically better lol, that's a red herring....GTFO. Fucking 24/7 slideshows for any of the good looking ones this gen.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Substatic

[Remij 4,683]

9 minutes ago, Twinblade said:

 

Enough with the PC gaming propaganda nonsense. PC gaming has lost the vast majority of its advantages compared to consoles in the last few years. It only has an upper hand with framerate in some games, but even thats becoming less relevant especially considering how many PC ports are poorly optimized and run poorly even on high end hardware.

 

 

Run games at console settings if you want to compare optimization bub...  You LITERALLY have PS5 and Series X games dropping under 1080/900p.... which aren't hitting 60fps locked.. and you're asking your PC to render 4x the pixels and hit higher framerates while maxed out on Ultra  

 

 

[Substatic 421]

@Remij

He's confused.

 

It can be a broken port and we can complain about it and demand better. But it still can be FAR better than the PS5 version. This was exemplified by Digital Foundry straight out doing the DF Face Off and saying/showing the PC version was SIGNIFICANTLY  better for Spider-Man. But then 2 months later complaining about a few PC issues on Spider-Man. Both things were true. 

 

TLDR the last few posts:  The consoles are so underpowered that broken ports are STILL far superior on PC. No fucking shot I'll have some kid tell me playing a game at 30 fps is better than 90+ because it stuttered for 2 days in a few scenes. Yours is a stuttering slideshow FOREVER and in every scene. But it's still an issue and both pc and console should want better made games. DLSS 3.5 and FSR3 being used as a crutch is bad. But when used properly, they are quite amazing. PC just has people with higher standards like Alex nitpicking everything, which is good.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Substatic

[Remij 4,683]

10 minutes ago, Substatic said:

@Remij

He's confused.

 

It can be a broken port and we can complain about it and demand better. But it still can be better than the PS5 version. This was exemplified by Digital Foundry straight out doing the DF Face off and saying/showing the PC version was without a doubt better. But then 2 months later complaining about PC issues. Both things were true. 

 

Well, for sure you can still brute force a much better experience than the consoles..  but yes, absolutely.. a port can be shitty and still be better than the consoles.  Most of the DF issues with PC ports are bugs/lack of polish and shader compilation stuttering... Some games aren't properly adapted to Alex's tastes... not really so much as optimization.  Like they might call a port bad because you can't rebind keys, or use the mouse easily in menus... or preview settings changes in real time lol.. 

 

It doesn't seem to catch on no matter how many times DF says it... but they do optimized settings for a reason.  Ultra is very often wasteful.

 

And yes, a lot of the titles that had issues get fixed within a couple weeks of launch.. which points again, to QA and management issues.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Remij

[Twinblade★ 3,930]

4 minutes ago, Remij said:

Well, for sure you can still brute force a much better experience than the consoles..  but yes, absolutely.. a port can be shitty and still be better than the consoles.  Most of the DF issues with PC ports are bugs/lack of polish and shader compilation stuttering... Some games aren't properly adapted to Alex's tastes... not really so much as optimization.  Like they might call a port bad because you can't rebind keys... or preview settings changes in real time lol.. 

 

It doesn't seem to catch on no matter how many times DF says it... but they do optimized settings for a reason.  Ultra is very often wasteful.

 

And yes, a lot of the titles that had issues get fixed within a couple weeks of launch.. which points again, to QA and management issues.

 

This is part of the reason why its hard to take hermits seriously. Ya'll laugh at how current gen consoles supposedly run games at medium settings but you'll gladly follow DF when they recommend turning down a game's settings to medium to improve performance. So at the end of the day you're just running PC games on your l33t rigs at PS5/Series X settings.

[Remij 4,683]

1 minute ago, Twinblade said:

 

This is part of the reason why its hard to take hermits seriously. Ya'll laugh at how current gen consoles supposedly run games at medium settings but you'll gladly follow DF when they recommend turning down a game's settings to medium to improve performance. So at the end of the day you're just running PC games on your l33t rigs at PS5/Series X settings.

LOL dude... you can't take consoles and PC equivalent GPUs and run them at vastly different settings... and expect to compare optimization....  

 

Nobody is saying you can't run games with better settings/resoultion than consoles with that hardware.... but why are you also expecting better performance at the same time??  

[Substatic 421]

6 minutes ago, Twinblade said:

 

This is part of the reason why its hard to take hermits seriously. Ya'll laugh at how current gen consoles supposedly run games at medium settings but you'll gladly follow DF when they recommend turning down a game's settings to medium to improve performance. So at the end of the day you're just running PC games on your l33t rigs at PS5/Series X settings.

 

Alex does some tests on a 2070 Super. At least for Spider-Man, that's why he had it medium for reccomendations on that rig.

 

DF's face off rig was higher, and noted it curb stomped the PS5 version when on high. Like most PS5 games. The consoles are weak this gen, it isn't hard. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Substatic

[Goukosan 2,258]

7 minutes ago, Substatic said:

 

Alex does some tests on a 2070 Super. At least for Spider-Man, that's why he had it medium for reccomendations on that rig. DF's face off rig was higher, and noted it curb stomped the PS5 version. Like most PS5 games.

 

The Sony ports that come years later and have a dedicated team specifically to port those games weren't the games I was referring to... Nice convenient cheery pick.... But even those aren't immune and has stinker PC ports from time to time

 

Let's stop pretending that for the last two to three years PC hasn't been getting bad ports of multiplats.  

 

 

This article from PC gamer this year encapsulates the recent frustrations of PC gamers. 

 

PC gamer - https://www.pcgamer.com/pc-gamers-really-fed-up-with-one-bad-pc-port-after-another-2023/

 

PC gamers are getting really, really fed up with one sh*tty port after another

It sure seems like there's something wrong with practically every major big-budget release on PC these days.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Goukosan

[Substatic 421]

10 minutes ago, Goukosan said:

 

 

Let's stop pretending that for the last two to three years PC hasn't been getting bad ports of multiplats.  

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not denying this.

 

I'm saying even the fucked up PC ports run better on PC than consoles given high end hardware. DF explicitly displayed this. 

 

Quote

 

It sure seems like there's something wrong with practically every major big-budget release on PC these days

 

 

Diablo 4, Jedi Survivor (after fixes), Resident Evil remake, Ratchet (after week 1 fixes), Hogwarts (after a few weeks) all far better on PC. Probably Starfield and BG3 too but we'll see.  I mean I'm running these all at 2 to 3 times the frames of PS5 and usually better vrr and lower input lag.

 

I'll agree some of them released pretty fucked up, but they are getting quicker at fixing the issues. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Substatic

[Remij 4,683]

"Optimization" is a tricky word that Durante wrote about in 2016, because it can often be player shorthand for "this game doesn't run well on my PC." With a new generation of consoles on the field, we might need to adjust some of our expectations of how demanding a PC game should be. A game isn't unoptimized just because you can't set everything to Ultra, which we typically could do during the PS4 generation, from 2013 to 2020.

 

Twinky's argument demolished in a nutshell.

 

And it's not just Twinky that thinks like that... a VAST MAJORITY of these vocal gamers think like that.

 

Again, nobody is saying games didn't release in an unfinished/buggy state... but that's not the same thing as saying all of those ports are unoptimized...  So many of those games have been fixed shortly after launch.. which again points to QA.

[JonDnD 2,644]

I think the first few years of these current consoles PC didnt make a ton of sense. But now that we are getting 30fps games or games that try to hit 60 but simply cannot , along with sub 1080 resolutions, PC is worth putting money into again.

 

30fps just doesnt cut it anymore even on console. Outside of Ditch owners we have all been accustomed to 60fps on basically every game for years. 

[Goukosan 2,258]

1 minute ago, Substatic said:

 

I'm not denying this.

 

I'm saying even the fucked up PC ports run better on PC than consoles given high end hardware. DF explicitly displayed this. 

 

Ok..we can agree there..

 

My post was more about the frequency of the bad ports on PC vs the frequency of bad ports on consoles. 

 

Obviously with PC if you have a super rig you can brute force through (unless it's actual bugs)... And obviously with PC you can get vastly superior experience than consoles. 

 

But that's no excuse for developers to no optimize the PC version. 

[JonDnD 2,644]

2 minutes ago, Remij said:

"Optimization" is a tricky word that Durante wrote about in 2016, because it can often be player shorthand for "this game doesn't run well on my PC." With a new generation of consoles on the field, we might need to adjust some of our expectations of how demanding a PC game should be. A game isn't unoptimized just because you can't set everything to Ultra, which we typically could do during the PS4 generation, from 2013 to 2020.

 

Twinky's argument demolished in a nutshell.

 

And it's not just Twinky that thinks like that... a VAST MAJORITY of these vocal gamers think like that.

 

Again, nobody is saying games didn't release in an unfinished/buggy state... but that's not the same thing as saying all of those ports are unoptimized...  So many of those games have been fixed shortly after launch.. which again points to QA.

I think the issue a lot of PC gamers have is that they spend a bunch of money on a PC and when they cant run ultra settings at high res and fr they just feel disappointed. 

[Substatic 421]

4 minutes ago, Goukosan said:

 

Ok..we can agree there..

 

My post was more about the frequency of the bad ports on PC vs the frequency of bad ports on consoles. 

 

Obviously with PC if you have a super rig you can brute force through (unless it's actual bugs)... And obviously with PC you can get vastly superior experience than consoles. 

 

 

But that's no excuse for developers to no optimize the PC version. 

 

I consider a 30 fps release on console a bad and fucked up version, and unlike PC there is no week 1 or week 3 fix. They have lower standards and don't make as many of these articles that Alex and PC gamer do - doesn't mean you can hide from it. A lot of games have been releasing like this:

 

Why the return of 30fps console games is inevitable | Eurogamer.net

 

Traversal stutter is not as bad as a constant 30 fps, after trying it out. At least if you're used to 100+.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Substatic

[Twinblade★ 3,930]

4 minutes ago, Goukosan said:

 

Ok..we can agree there..

 

My post was more about the frequency of the bad ports on PC vs the frequency of bad ports on consoles. 

 

Obviously with PC if you have a super rig you can brute force through (unless it's actual bugs)... And obviously with PC you can get vastly superior experience than consoles. 

 

But that's no excuse for developers to no optimize the PC version. 

 

Hermits are suddenly trying to forget the fact that VRAM related issues exist even though they're still a significant problem that isn't expected to get better with time. On consoles you are guaranteed to get a consistent experience even at 30FPS, while on PC you can expect to have major stuttering and framerate drop issues on many video cards.

[Substatic 421]

5 minutes ago, Twinblade said:

 

  consistent experience even at 30FPS

 

Consistent eye rape. I'll take a millisecond of traversal stutter every 15 minutes in a few games over that shit.

 

DF already noted this in their REMAKE review. PC version was better even w/ some minor traversal stutter. Blink and you'll miss it vs fuck my eyes 24/7.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Substatic

[JonDnD 2,644]

5 minutes ago, Twinblade said:

 

Hermits are suddenly trying to forget the fact that VRAM related issues exist even though they're still a significant problem that isn't expected to get better with time. On consoles you are guaranteed to get a consistent experience even at 30FPS, while on PC you can expect to have major stuttering and framerate drop issues on many video cards.

You could turn down some settings to alleviate the vram issues tho. I dont recall having any issues at 1080p with my 6gb card. 8gb at 1080p should be no problem and at 1440p should be able to just drop textures down and some other things.

[Twinblade★ 3,930]

2 minutes ago, Substatic said:

 

Consistent eye rape. I'll take a millisecond of traversal stutter every 15 minutes in a few games over that shit.

 

DF already noted this in their REMAKE review. PC version was better even w/ some minor traversal stutter. Blink and you'll miss it vs fuck my eyes 24/7.

 

GTFO  its much worse than that. I was getting sub 20 frames in many games at 2K for extended periods of time. In fact there were a few times during Hogwarts Legacy that I had to restart the game altogether in order for the framerate to return to normal.