Digital Foundry discusses how Xbox One/S performance is degrading over time, PS4 SDK is a lot better than Xbox SDK, etc.

[JonDnD 2,639]

Lol he says pro doesn't have any bottlenecks

[Remij 4,682]

Just now, lynux3 said:

I knew I would strike a nerve.  You wish you could be on my level.

 

Now run along. RTX off.

Yes, hearing really stupid shit strikes the nerves of people who are smarter and know better.  We BOTH knew you'd strike a nerve with me... you literally can't avoid it.. you're destined to say stupid shit and then try to back it up with more stupid shit  

 

You want to throw me for a loop... try not talking 

[lynux3 2,100]

2 minutes ago, DynamiteCop! said:

Your level of retardation? 

If I'm retarded then you must be beyond that. I'm not sitting here trying to hype up literally one of the worst CPUs in recent history because Microsoft said it was something special.

 

You literally somehow shilled the conversation into a Digital Foundry discussion about how Xbox One / S performance is degrading significantly as time goes on, the PlayStation 4 development environment being generally favored over the poorer Xbox development environment to how the Xbox One's CPU is amazing because Microsoft said it was due to minor tweaks and a method that has been in practice for decades.

 

No one can be on your level.

[DynamiteCop 2,086]

Just now, lynux3 said:

If I'm retarded then you must be beyond that. I'm not sitting here trying to hype up literally one of the worst CPUs in recent history because Microsoft said it was something special.

 

You literally somehow shilled the conversation into a Digital Foundry discussion about how Xbox One / S performance is degrading significantly as time goes on, the PlayStation 4 development environment being generally favored over the poorer Xbox development environment to how the Xbox One's CPU is amazing because Microsoft said it was due to minor tweaks and a method that has been in practice for decades.

 

No one can be on your level.

Are you going to respond to my actual post or just say this dumb shit?

[lynux3 2,100]

2 minutes ago, Remij_ said:

Yes, hearing really stupid shit strikes the nerves of people who are smarter and know better.  We BOTH knew you'd strike a nerve with me... you literally can't avoid it.. you're destined to say stupid shit and then try to back it up with more stupid shit  

 

You want to throw me for a loop... try not talking 

You love it, you sick fuck. You can't go a day without seeing the stupid shit I put on this board for obvious reasons. You're a mod and you do it for free. Thank you.  

 

RTX OFF

[JonDnD 2,639]

LinusTechTips 

[lynux3 2,100]

27 minutes ago, DynamiteCop! said:

They did the custom work to their system in house, they have their own hardware engineers and took the CPU and GPU beyond the scope that AMD provides. I'm not saying Sony had no say but their systems are AMD OEM, not off the shelf parts but factory configured just like the base Xbox One and S are. It's not making nothing out of something, it is something, when your base operating frequency is 1.6Ghz a 150Mhz increase is near 10%. It's not amazing but it is still something at the end of the day.

 

Did it work? There's nothing to suggest it worked and there's nothing to suggest that it's even selling better than the X, on the contrary. Microsoft put up a 96% increase in hardware revenue while they saw gains in terms of units by 18%. I know Amazon is not the best metric but it's something to go by and the X is #72 for all of 2018 on their top 100 while the Pro is non-existent. The reality is the only information we ever got beyond that is that the X was leading the Pro launch aligned and it's been silent ever since.

 

In terms of the Pro and bottlenecking that's a factual lie that's easily deconstructed. You don't average 80%+ higher resolutions with a 43% compute differential unless your competition has bottlenecked their GPU. Sony increased their GPU compute by 128% and only increased the systems bandwidth by 24%. They overclocked their existing memory instead of spending money putting in faster RAM and computationally the systems performance paid the price for it. Even with a pool of GDDR5 they managed to make their second entry into the performative comparative to the base Xbox One versus the base PlayStation 4 by screwing up memory capability. 

 

Adding more CU's to their GPU wouldn't have done anything for them, they could have double the CU's of the Xbox One X and it would still perform the same as it does now. They've already tapped out the available bandwidth, it's bottlenecked, adding CU's wouldn't do anything. 

It's hard to read past the first paragraph. It's that terrible. All of these systems are off the shelf "custom" fabrications based on AMD technology. There's nothing special about this hardware, why can't you see passed the Microsoft marketing? The tweaks done to this hardware to ultimately become a product are minuscule in the overall picture. This isn't something like Sony, Toshiba and IBM did with the Cell. That was brand new shit.

 

I don't know any of the percentages, but I do know that Microsoft is on the up..... let's be real. They're on the up because they just came off their worst year ever since the original Xbox. While they may be celebrating now the real test will be whether or not they can keep the momentum going. My guess is no for obvious reasons. They don't have the first party and they're expanding Xbox Game Pass to PC.

 

You got me. The bandwidth is a concern, though, but it's not a killer. The PS4 Pro was never meant to be a 4K system as one of AMD's engineers stated and neither is the Xbox One X. It was meant to be an affordable stepping stone to 4K with checkerboarding like Mark Cerny touted during its initial reveal. I can understand why Microsoft went the route they did with Xbox One X and it was literally for marketing and putting more spark into a dying brand. Xbox One was literally dying until Xbox One X came out.

Edited January 6, 2019 by lynux3

[lynux3 2,100]

12 minutes ago, Jon2B said:

LinusTechTips 

I hate that guy.

[lynux3 2,100]

18 minutes ago, DynamiteCop! said:

Are you going to respond to my actual post or just say this dumb shit?

The post you quoted isn't dumb shit. It's exactly what you did.

[Remij 4,682]

2 minutes ago, lynux3 said:

The post you quoted isn't dumb shit. It's exactly what you did.

It's dumb shit Linus.. paragraphs of it   

[lynux3 2,100]

1 minute ago, Remij_ said:

It's dumb shit Linus.. paragraphs of it   

No. Dumb shit is buying two overpriced RTX cards.

[Remij 4,682]

1 minute ago, lynux3 said:

No. Dumb shit is buying two overpriced RTX cards.

Yea, that's dumb too...  Doesn't make your paragraphs any less dumb retard  

[lynux3 2,100]

1 minute ago, Remij_ said:

Yea, that's dumb too...  Doesn't make your paragraphs any less dumb retard  

You're a goddamn dumbo.

[Remij 4,682]

1 minute ago, lynux3 said:

You're a goddamn dumbo.

I'm hungry as fuck.  Think I might get some A&W  

[DynamiteCop 2,086]

4 minutes ago, lynux3 said:

It's hard to read past the first paragraph. It's that terrible. All of these systems are off the shelf "custom" fabrications based on AMD technology. There's nothing special about this hardware, why can't you see passed the Microsoft marketing? The tweaks done to this hardware to ultimately become a product are minuscule in the overall picture. This isn't something like Sony, Toshiba and IBM did with the Cell. That was brand new shit.

 

I don't know any of the percentages, but I do know that Microsoft is on the up..... let's be real. They're on the up because they just came off their worst year ever since the original Xbox. While they may be celebrating now the real test will be whether or not they can keep the momentum going. My guess is no for obvious reasons. They don't have the first party and they're expanding Xbox Game Pass to PC.

 

You got me. The bandwidth is a concern, though, but it's not a killer. The PS4 Pro was never meant to be a 4K system as one of AMD's engineers stated and neither is the Xbox One X. It was meant to be an affordable stepping stone to 4K with checkerboarding like Mark Cerny touted during its initial reveal. I can understand why Microsoft went the route they did with Xbox One X and it was literally for marketing and putting more spark into a dying brand. Xbox One was literally dying until Xbox One X came out.

There's AMD OEM with factory configurations and then there's externally customized hardware, they're not the same. Sony went for RPM as a Vega feature to have added to their GPU as a factory inclusion, Microsoft did not choose this but they did choose Vega DCC. Sony put in a 40 CU Polaris GPU iterative with four CU's disabled for yields, clocked it to 911 Mhz vs. its base of 800 Mhz and then called it a day.  Microsoft used the same overarching GPU but instead swung for 44 CU's at 1172 Mhz with four disabled for yields. They then went beyond this themselves to customize that GPU for better balance in the system with the aims of eradicating bottlenecks. The same principle applied to the CPU's, Sony put in an overclocked OEM 2.1 Ghz Jaguar and called it a day while Microsoft put in a OEM 2.3 Ghz Jaguar that they then customized like their GPU for better performance thus introducing it as the "Scorpio Engine" due to their own work on it.

 

 It seems to be doing extremely well regardless of anything else, no one complains about it, it's praised and it's effective in what it does. 

 

Except that's not entirely true because their advertisement regardless of what they said at the PlayStation meeting setup the principles for its expectation as a system. It's the same reason they've abandoned their previous two or three 4K oriented slogans and settled on "4K-TV gaming" as to neutralize criticism of what it's actually doing.  

 

2 minutes ago, lynux3 said:

I hate that guy.

You seem to hate knowledgeable people. 

[lynux3 2,100]

11 minutes ago, DynamiteCop! said:

There's AMD OEM with factory configurations and then there's externally customized hardware, they're not the same. Sony went for RPM as a Vega feature to have added to their GPU as a factory inclusion, Microsoft did not choose this but they did choose Vega DCC. Sony put in a 40 CU Polaris GPU iterative with four CU's disabled for yields, clocked it to 911 Mhz vs. its base of 800 Mhz and then called it a day.  Microsoft used the same overarching GPU but instead swung for 44 CU's at 1172 Mhz with four disabled for yields. They then went beyond this themselves to customize that GPU for better balance in the system with the aims of eradicating bottlenecks. The same principle applied to the CPU's, Sony put in an overclocked OEM 2.1 Ghz Jaguar and called it a day while Microsoft put in a OEM 2.3 Ghz Jaguar that they then customized like their GPU for better performance thus introducing it as the "Scorpio Engine" due to their own work on it.

 

 It seems to be doing extremely well regardless of anything else, no one complains about it, it's praised and it's effective in what it does. 

 

Except that's not entirely true because their advertisement regardless of what they said at the PlayStation meeting setup the principles for its expectation as a system. It's the same reason they've abandoned their previous two or three 4K oriented slogans and settled on "4K-TV gaming" as to neutralize criticism of what it's actually doing.  

 

You seem to hate knowledgeable people. 

You're trumpeting something so insignificant it's embarrassing. The hardware is still off the shelf shit tweaked to the manufacturers needs/ideals/optimizations/agenda/strategy/what have you. It's time to get passed it because lets be honest you're just spewing out Microsoft PR and Googling clock speeds and abbreviations you've never seen or heard of before. Both companies tweaked, tested and sent revisions to AMD to perform the work, it's literally that simple.

 

Xbox One was dead in the water and it got a spark of life with Xbox One X. Will it last? Nope, end of story.

 

4K gaming =/= 4K resolution for the Pro. The PS4 Pro is capable of outputting a 4K signal which is inline with "4K-TV gaming". Don't see the problem here.

 

No, you obviously don't watch Linus Tech Tips. Most of his shit is worthless and his voice is annoying. I prefer Gamers Nexus, der8auer, AdoredTV, Louis Rossmann, etc. These people are significantly smarter and more entertaining to me personally.

Edited January 6, 2019 by lynux3

[DynamiteCop 2,086]

1 minute ago, lynux3 said:

You're trumpeting something so insignificant it's embarrassing. The hardware is still off the shelf shit tweaked to the manufacturers needs/ideals/optimizations/agenda/strategy/what have you. It's time to get passed it because lets be honest you're just spewing out Microsoft PR and Googling clock speeds and abbreviations you've never seen or heard of before. Both companies tweaked, tested and sent revisions to AMD to perform the work, it's literally that simple.

 

Xbox One was dead in the water and it got a spark of life with Xbox One X. Will it last? Nope, end of story.

 

4K gaming =/= 4K resolution. The PS4 Pro is capable of outputting a 4K signal which is inline with "4K-TV gaming". Don't see the problem here.

 

No, you obviously don't watch Linus Tech Tips. Most of his shit is worthless and his voice is annoying. I prefer Gamers Nexus, der8auer, AdoredTV, Louis Rossmann, etc. These people are significantly smarter and more entertaining to me personally.

Everything I've said to you is off the cuff because I know exactly what I'm talking about, I've followed these systems from the beginning. Certain things may seem insignificant individually but when applied to the whole they make a starkly noticeable difference. The PlayStation 4 Pro is an OEM factory configured system, the Xbox One X is not, Microsoft performed their own work with their own hardware engineers to better AMD's design. Sony did none of that, they chose a selection of specifications and had it built, they had no hand in tuning AMD's OEM offering to them. 

 

Well it's been 14 months and it seems to be doing just great with critical and community acclaim. 

 

The Xbox One S is capable of outputting a 4K signal, but it was never advertised as a 4K gaming device. 

 

I do watch him as I have been for the better part of a decade, he knows his shit and you can find issue with his voice but he knows his stuff. 

[lynux3 2,100]

22 minutes ago, Remij_ said:

I'm hungry as fuck.  Think I might get some A&W  

You need a Whataburger.

[lynux3 2,100]

Just now, DynamiteCop! said:

Everything I've said to you is off the cuff because I know exactly what I'm talking about, I've followed these systems from the beginning. Certain things may seem insignificant individually but when applied to the whole they make a starkly noticeable difference. The PlayStation 4 Pro is an OEM factory configured system, the Xbox One X is not, Microsoft performed their own work with their own hardware engineers to better AMD's design. Sony did none of that, they chose a selection of specifications and had it built, they had no hand in tuning AMD's OEM offering to them. 

 

Well it's been 14 months and it seems to be doing just great with critical and community acclaim. 

 

The Xbox One S is capable of outputting a 4K signal, but it was never advertised as a 4K gaming device. 

 

I do watch him as I have been for the better part of a decade, he knows his shit and you can find issue with his voice but he knows his stuff. 

No, you're spewing "tech" articles fabricated from Microsoft PR. No one really knows what changes were made outside of piece meal shit to make it sound better. The bottom line is that the base architecture is intact and the same with minuscule changes to accommodate the design team's goal for their product and budget. I can understand the balance of components and PS4 Pro falls short depending on how you look at it and how it was introduced. Based on the introduction it falls perfectly in line with its purpose. Stating that Sony doesn't do their homework is ignorant considering the original Xbox One and Xbox One S were defeated technically in a massive fashion by base PS4... which prompted Microsoft to embrace the general design with Xbox One X. You can't sweep this under the rug. Like I said "Both companies tweaked, tested and sent revisions to AMD to perform the work, it's literally that simple."

 

The Xbox One S is capable of outputting 4K because it has to. Microsoft marketed the device as a revised original Xbox One with 4K blu-ray playback.

 

Linus Tech Tips still sucks. He knows about as much as the next guy who tinkers with PC components on reddit, lol. He's a dime a dozen, but he's very successful. Props to that dude for making it big with his hobby.

[DynamiteCop 2,086]

20 minutes ago, lynux3 said:

No, you're spewing "tech" articles fabricated from Microsoft PR. No one really knows what changes were made outside of piece meal shit to make it sound better. The bottom line is that the base architecture is intact and the same with minuscule changes to accommodate the design team's goal for their product and budget. I can understand the balance of components and PS4 Pro falls short depending on how you look at it and how it was introduced. Based on the introduction it falls perfectly in line with its purpose. Stating that Sony doesn't do their homework is ignorant considering the original Xbox One and Xbox One S were defeated technically in a massive fashion by base PS4... which prompted Microsoft to embrace the general design with Xbox One X. You can't sweep this under the rug. Like I said "Both companies tweaked, tested and sent revisions to AMD to perform the work, it's literally that simple."

 

The Xbox One S is capable of outputting 4K because it has to. Microsoft marketed the device as a revised original Xbox One with 4K blu-ray playback.

 

Linus Tech Tips still sucks. He knows about as much as the next guy who tinkers with PC components on reddit, lol. He's a dime a dozen, but he's very successful. Props to that dude for making it big with his hobby.

No, we know exactly what is going on inside this hardware. It's all been mapped out. Like I said I've been following this stuff and doing the research since the Pro was just known as Neo. Sony did no such work, they didn't engineer anything themselves. They didn't customize any of the hardware in their system, they no doubt told AMD what they wanted to do and were presented a few options and configurations they could go with. They did no extenuating work on their hardware beyond what AMD had available as OEM level configurations. Microsoft actually took what AMD provided them and did their own work on it to better AMD's design. 

 

I'm not sweeping anything under the rug, they approached this situation completely different from each other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by DynamiteCop!