Half-Life Alyx sold over 860,000 copies in its first week

[Remij 4,682]

7 minutes ago, The Mother Fucker said:

But I'm not showing a picture of a monitor.  I'm showing you an actual 3D generated game. 

But... we all perceive that image on a flad 2d plane called a monitor  

[DynamiteCop 2,086]

Just now, Remij_ said:

But... we all perceive that image on a flad 2d plane called a monitor  

Not hard to understand. 

[jehurey 3,231]

Just now, Remij_ said:

Nobody is saying the accomplishment is with the screens.  The accomplishment comes from having multiple angles which represent the eyes and your brain combining them to create depth...

 

That's where the depth comes from.

 

No what is showing in that video has NOTHING to do with immersion.  Not even one single fucking bit.  All that is being shown in that video is ILLUSION of depth.  I could look at that TV from any angle I want... and I'm not IMMERSED in that environment.  It doesn't do anything but provide a trick of DEPTH by altering the angle of the camera within that space to move as you move the sensor.  The TV remains flat... and I can perceive all the depth AROUND that TV.  

 

VR uses similar concepts but is different in that you're IMMERSED in that environment and YOU are the camera.  You cant escape and look outside the bounds of the environment.  If you could see even a little bit of your irl surrounding environment with a VR set on... then immersion would be immediately lost, because it would be like looking through a scope or something.

 

You even said yourself... the proximity of the images to your eyes helps with the immersion, because the closer to your eye, the wider the field of view.  The wider the FOV, the greater the immersion.  VR takes up your entire visible FOV... what is shown in that does not.

Dynocrap explicitly is saying that with his "2D gamers" comments.

 

Like the Johnny Chung Lee video points out, the graphics on a screen that is static to the position of your eyes makes the imagery appear "flat"

 

When it adjusts the in-game camera with your eye's position, the gimmick is rather immersive.

 

Sensors that track your eyes and your movement is the "magic trick" that makes VR work.

 

Quote

You even said yourself... the proximity of the images to your eyes helps with the immersion, because the closer to your eye, the wider the field of view.  The wider the FOV, the greater the immersion.  VR takes up your entire visible FOV... what is shown in that does not.

 

Except you just decided to omit the final part of my last post:

Quote

 

And quite frankly, its a better gimmick because the "window into another world" feels impressive in achieving just that.

 

The VR headset and turning your into while IN another world simply does not feel as good or as accurate as turning your head in real life. As long as you have to have stuff hanging off of your face, it'll always feel weird.

 

The "looking into a window into another world" genuinely DOES FEEL like "looking into a window into another world"

 

Looking around in VR does not feel as natural or as good as looking around in real life. Having plastic hanging off of your head and LED screens 2 inches from your eyeballs is going to be the main culprit for that.

[Remij 4,682]

9 minutes ago, jehurey said:

Dynocrap explicitly is saying that with his "2D gamers" comments.

 

Like the Johnny Chung Lee video points out, the graphics on a screen that is static to the position of your eyes makes the imagery appear "flat"

 

When it adjusts the in-game camera with your eye's position, the gimmick is rather immersive.

 

Sensors that track your eyes and your movement is the "magic trick" that makes VR work.

 

It's not immersive at all.  You know you're looking at a flat image on a monitor.  It's moving the camera relative to your head... but it's not immersive at all because you literally cannot see behind it...  It's a window.. like I said.  Looking through my window outside from inside my house isn't immersive is it?  I don't feel like I'm immersed in the environment outside... I feel like I'm looking through a window.  That's what traditional 2D gaming is... because your eyes cannot perceive real world depth to those images.  We know that there's things farther away, and things obscured like trees in the background... we know that because everything relative.  "3d games" are not immersive. We can move the character in all 3 dimensions... but the viewport is still 2d.  There's no depth on TVs and monitors.

 

VR is being in that environment, because you have the depth, your brain is getting representation of both eyes, and you're able to look in any and all directions.  It fills your entire view frustum, and we also have full 6 degrees of freedom, so control is relative to space.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Remij_

[The Mother Fucker 26]

4 minutes ago, Remij_ said:

But... we all perceive that image on a flad 2d plane called a monitor  

 

 

There's monoscopic and there's stereoscopic. 

 

VR shows images in stereoscopic, but so does 3-D monitors. 

[The Mother Fucker 26]

Non VR, Non 3-D Monitors are not 2D, they are monoscopic. 

[jehurey 3,231]

Just now, Remij_ said:

It's not immersive at all.  You know you're looking at a flat image on a monitor.  It's moving the camera relative to your head... but it's not immersive at all because you literally cannot see behind it...  It's a window.. like I said.  Looking through my window outside from inside my house isn't immersive is it?  I don't feel like I'm immersed in the environment outside... I feel like I'm looking through a window.  That's what traditional 2D gaming is... because your eyes cannot perceive real world depth to those images.  We know that there's things farther away, and things obscured like trees in the background... we know that because everything relative.  We can move the character in all 3 dimensions... but the viewport is 2d.  There's no depth on TVs and monitors.

 

VR is being in that environment, because you have the depth, your brain is getting representation of both eyes, and you're able to look in any and all directions.  It fills your entire view frustum, and we also have full 6 degrees of freedom, so control is relative to space.

No, its immersive, that youtube video was quite a big hit when it came out.

 

If the window genuinely behaves like a window, then the gimmick is a success.

 

In a VR helmet makes your eyes tired or causes people to feel claustrophobic.........then the immersion isn't holding up.

 

Your brain is used to having plenty of space in front of your eyeballs and not having something covering up your eyes.

 

Your brain DOES NOTICE that it has LED screens 2 inches from your eyeballs...........there is nothing you can say that will convince anybody otherwise. Even you know it when you play VR.

[Remij 4,682]

Just now, The Mother Fucker said:

 

 

There's monoscopic and there's stereoscopic. 

 

VR shows images in stereoscopic, but so does 3-D monitors. 

And everything you've shown is monoscopic... flat.

[Remij 4,682]

1 minute ago, The Mother Fucker said:

Non VR, Non 3-D Monitors are not 2D, they are monoscopic. 

They're 2d.  There's no actual depth to screens... lmao dude...

[jehurey 3,231]

Just now, The Mother Fucker said:

Non VR, Non 3-D Monitors are not 2D, they are monoscopic. 

They're trying to boast about incredibly silly things.

 

People do not like having to wear things in order to enjoy a visual effect. They'll prefer their eyes and faces to be completely free of any burdens.

[The Mother Fucker 26]

Just now, Remij_ said:

They're 2d.  There's no actual depth to screens... lmao dude...

There is depth on what the screen displays man!    3D, 2D, 1D.  

[The Mother Fucker 26]

1 minute ago, jehurey said:

They're trying to boast about incredibly silly things.

 

People do not like having to wear things in order to enjoy a visual effect. They'll prefer their eyes and faces to be completely free of any burdens.

Well they could just say that.  
But claiming VR is only the device to show 3-D is goofy. 

[DynamiteCop 2,086]

1 minute ago, The Mother Fucker said:

There is depth on what the screen displays man!    3D, 2D, 1D.  

The render is simulating depth, you perceive none. 

 

Holy fucking hell

[Remij 4,682]

1 minute ago, jehurey said:

No, its immersive, that youtube video was quite a big hit when it came out.

 

If the window genuinely behaves like a window, then the gimmick is a success.

 

In a VR helmet makes your eyes tired or causes people to feel claustrophobic.........then the immersion isn't holding up.

 

Your brain is used to having plenty of space in front of your eyeballs and not having something covering up your eyes.

 

Your brain DOES NOTICE that it has LED screens 2 inches from your eyeballs...........there is nothing you can say that will convince anybody otherwise. Even you know it when you play VR.

Not immersive at all.  Literally not at all.  There's nothing immersive about looking at that.  You can't reach and grab any of those targets.  You can't look behind those targets.

 

All the other shit you're talking about is you trying REALLY HARD to make some argument... but it's not working.  People wear glasses on their faces every day.  And you know what your brain notices more than LEDs right in front of your eyes?  How immersive the game is... and how you can look anywhere and you're actually surrounded by that environment.

 

Nobody in VR thinks about how close the LEDs are to their eyes...  Some people just get motion sick for all sorts of reasons.  Yea, it's tiring after a while and it varies per person... no shit.   Nobody is saying it replaces reality... technology has a long way to go... We're talking about traditional monitors vs VR sets.   And there's absolutely NO denying which is more immersive.

[The Mother Fucker 26]

3 minutes ago, DynamiteCop! said:

The render is simulating depth, you perceive none. 

 

Holy fucking hell

So you are saying our brains don't perceive 3rd dimension when viewing it? Please source where you are getting this bullshit from.

[Remij 4,682]

7 minutes ago, jehurey said:

They're trying to boast about incredibly silly things.

 

People do not like having to wear things in order to enjoy a visual effect. They'll prefer their eyes and faces to be completely free of any burdens.

You're not even talking about the subject but rather how "burdened" they are... and you say WE'RE the ones talking about silly things  

[jehurey 3,231]

5 minutes ago, DynamiteCop! said:

The render is simulating depth, you perceive none. 

 

Holy fucking hell

So are two flat screens that are two inches from your face.

 

At the end, its your eyes that perform the "magic trick". Same would apply with 3D software-based graphics.

[DynamiteCop 2,086]

2 minutes ago, The Mother Fucker said:

So you are saying our brains don't perceive 3rd dimension when viewing it? Please source where you are getting this bullshit from.

It's called a functioning brain you fucking moron. 

[The Mother Fucker 26]

Just now, DynamiteCop! said:

It's called a functioning brain you fucking moron. 

[jehurey 3,231]

1 minute ago, Remij_ said:

You're not even talking about the subject but rather how "burdened" they are... and you say WE'RE the ones talking about silly things  

No, I'm talking about both things.

 

You're the one that tried to dismiss the Johnny Chung Lee example........you were making "this immersion is better than that immersion" type of argument.

 

So I simply went alot and followed you on that tangent.

 

The main accomplishment of VR isn't the stereoscopic effect...........its the tracking of your eyes/head.