Sony officially gives PS5 details (Cerny himself)

[JonDnD 2,626]

I think 8k is the point where the "but the human eye cant see" argument will actually be true .

 

Isn't the most popular screen size 55 inches ? 8k is a pointless waste of power 

[Playstation Tablet 1,725]

The reality for Sony is not even the competition in the streaming space. It's just for them most likely even in the best case scenario PSnow will never even represent a fraction of their gaming business compared to hardware. PlayStation streaming will never outgrow PlayStation hardware. So they got their prior right.

 

MS obviously expects XCloud to far outpace XBox hardware.

 

 

 

 

[Voidler 1,675]

Just now, JONBpc said:

I think 8k is the point where the "but the human eye cant see" argument will actually be true .

 

Isn't the most popular screen size 55 inches ? 8k is a pointless waste of power 

Haven’t people been saying that shit since 720p? Then three years later that resolution is considered garbage, rinse and repeat

 

Also, with VR resolutions can scale to much bigger heights to accomodate the closeness of the pixels

[Goukosan 2,255]

Jonb1 and DynamiteCop predicted that X would kill the Switch Day 1.... Scorpio was supposed to take over and dominate 

 

Now they're back to predicting that Next gen will kill the Switch Fall 2020... 21 months from now. 

 

Apparently going by their logic Nintendo signed a decades long deal with Nvidia to only release the Switch and nothing else... Switch 2 is not happening...... ever.  Switch is their last system. 

[JonDnD 2,626]

Lmao vr 

 

I mean the cows have been telling us 4k cant be seen over 1440p.

 

 

[Remij 4,679]

Just now, lynux3 said:

You can't physically reproduce 24,883,200 pixels with TAA.  

 

 

Perceptible detail is already sufficient...  We no longer need 4x the resolution to reduce shimmering and aliasing.  We have very temporally stable images already.  Perceptible detail at standard TV sizes diminishes greatly going from 4K to 8K... resolution in gaming right now (4K) is not currently a limiting factor for perceptible detail.. what games need now is more detail across the entire scene.  Meaning less low res textures in spots, and more unique textures.  That's where added PERCEPTIBLE detail will come from... not bumping the resolution up to 8K.

 

This isn't like 1080p to 4K, where you can literally make out entire details that weren't there before.  It's about improving detail across visual elements to a higher standard rather than bumping resolution up farther.

[JonDnD 2,626]

Just now, Goukosan said:

Jonb1 and DynamiteCop predicted that X would kill the Switch Day 1.... Scorpio was supposed to take over and dominate 

 

Now they're back to predicting that Next gen will kill the Switch Fall 2020... 21 months from now. 

 

Apparently going by their logic Nintendo signed a decades long deal with Nvidia to only release the Switch and nothing else... Switch 2 is not happening...... ever.  Switch is their last system. 

Games made specifically for next gen simply won't work on switch , or switch 2 

 

Almost all of the current gen games cant be done on switch 

[lynux3 2,086]

Just now, Goukosan said:

Jonb1 and DynamiteCop predicted that X would kill the Switch Day 1.... Scorpio was supposed to take over and dominate 

 

Now they're back to predicting that Next gen will kill the Switch Fall 2020... 21 months from now. 

 

Apparently going by their logic Nintendo signed a decades long deal with Nvidia to only release the Switch and nothing else... Switch 2 is not happening...... ever.  Switch is their last system. 

If Nintendo wants to keep getting extremely watered down ports the "enhanced" Switch will need to be a lot more than a Tegra 2, which is what you predicted, in the next 19 months. 

[Playstation Tablet 1,725]

Albert Penelo just posted this. Ex MS head.

 

Don't confuse investment with "willing to take a loss"

The Xbox advantage is that it can leverage Microsoft capital for "big bets". This could be headcount, acquisitions, or infrastructure (like Xcloud)

But the bet needs to pay off. Unlike say Nintendo, Microsoft's size means that it's also diversified, and therefore a single business unit like Xbox can't bring down the whole company.

It's not correct to draw a line between the size and profitability of Microsoft, and the willingness or ability for Xbox to take a loss on HW. They are completely independent things

 

[Voidler 1,675]

2 minutes ago, Team 2019 said:

The reality for Sony is not even the competition in the streaming space. It's just for them most likely even in the best case scenario PSnow will never even represent a fraction of their gaming business compared to hardware. PlayStation streaming will never outgrow PlayStation hardware. So they got their prior right.

 

MS obviously expects XCloud to far outpace XBox hardware.

 

 

 

 

I don’t agree. Cerny is at he helm again and he is a very forward thinking guy. He was getting stuff like native twitch integration and share play done before anyone else was thinking of it 

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if streaming is way more heavily integrated into how PS5 works

 

Im not even that into the idea of streaming generally. But I love the idea of stuff like opening the PS Store and quickly demoing a game right from the page with streaming before buying 

[Goukosan 2,255]

6 minutes ago, JONBpc said:

I just want 60fps games .

 

PC gaming is probably gonna be so expensive next gen 

You will get 60fps 4k games....but 8K 60 FPS won't be common place on launch systems next gen. 

 

 

[lynux3 2,086]

1 minute ago, Remij_ said:

 

 

Perceptible detail is already sufficient...  We no longer need 4x the resolution to reduce shimmering and aliasing.  We have very temporally stable images already.  Perceptible detail at standard TV sizes diminishes greatly going from 4K to 8K... resolution in gaming right now (4K) is not currently a limiting factor for perceptible detail.. what games need now is more detail across the entire scene.  Meaning less low res textures in spots, and more unique textures.  That's where added PERCEPTIBLE detail will come from... not bumping the resolution up to 8K.

 

This isn't like 1080p to 4K, where you can literally make out entire details that weren't there before.  It's about improving detail across visual elements to a higher standard rather than bumping resolution up farther.

What are you going to say when 8K TAA comes along? You'll completely flip flop, guaranteed.  

[JonDnD 2,626]

Just now, Goukosan said:

You will get 60fps 4k games....but 8K 60 FPS won't be common place on launch systems next gen. 

 

 

I'll probably never buy an 8k TV anyway . The content just won't be there .

[Goukosan 2,255]

1 minute ago, lynux3 said:

If Nintendo wants to keep getting extremely watered down ports the "enhanced" Switch will need to be a lot more than a Tegra 2, which is what you predicted, in the next 19 months. 

 

1 minute ago, JONBpc said:

Games made specifically for next gen simply won't work on switch , or switch 2 

 

Almost all of the current gen games cant be done on switch 

@lynux3 the enhanced Switch is not Switch 2....that's a Switch refresh.  

 

Im referring to their next system... not the refreshes rumored to be announced this year

[Playstation Tablet 1,725]

2 minutes ago, Voidler said:

I don’t agree. Cerny is at he helm again and he is a very forward thinking guy. He was getting stuff like native twitch integration and share play done before anyone else was thinking of it 

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if streaming is way more heavily integrated into how PS5 works

 

Im not even that into the idea of streaming generally. But I love the idea of stuff like opening the PS Store and quickly demoing a game right from the page with streaming before buying 

That's a good point, but you're pointing to more of a PSN Plus added featureset. Or the rumoured PLus Premium. It's service growth, but it's aimed at hardware once again. People here laugh but it seems PSnows biggest growth next gen might be the rumoured PlayStation tablet.

[DynamiteCop 2,086]

7 minutes ago, Remij_ said:

 

 

Perceptible detail is already sufficient...  We no longer need 4x the resolution to reduce shimmering and aliasing.  We have very temporally stable images already.  Perceptible detail at standard TV sizes diminishes greatly going from 4K to 8K... resolution in gaming right now (4K) is not currently a limiting factor for perceptible detail.. what games need now is more detail across the entire scene.  Meaning less low res textures in spots, and more unique textures.  That's where added PERCEPTIBLE detail will come from... not bumping the resolution up to 8K.

 

This isn't like 1080p to 4K, where you can literally make out entire details that weren't there before.  It's about improving detail across visual elements to a higher standard rather than bumping resolution up farther.

I literally can't find aliasing in Far Cry 5 on Xbox One X, and it's razor sharp IQ. 8K wouldn't do anything. 

[Remij 4,679]

9 minutes ago, lynux3 said:

What are you going to say when 8K TAA comes along? You'll completely flip flop, guaranteed.  

You're hanging on my TAA statement when you don't even consider WHY I said it.

 

I don't flip flop on this shit.  The simple fact is that from the 720p/1080p days.. resolution played a factor because developers were creating assets that were higher fidelity than what could be displayed by those pixels..  When the resolution got better.. we could see those details, but there was still aliasing and shimmering.  TAA is a relatively recent invention, and fixes much of that (depending on implementation of course) while maintaining minute detail.  It's not like before when it used to blur everything.  Now, developers know much more about how the pixels are to be rendered, based on all sorts of temporal information and motion vectors, and can create a very solid, sharp, stable image.. which simply wasn't possible before.  This negates a large reason for simply pushing higher resolutions... aliasing.  At 4K, and even 1800p, with a solid TAA solution, detail is high and image is stable.  8K.. isn't going to show an appreciable amount of detail more than 4K at this point. 

 

Higher asset fidelity across the scene will be more important than simply pushing 8K and having the same "high res assets mixed with low res assets" that we have today.

 

It's simply not worth supporting in any real capacity yet.  They're in no real rush to push 8K.

[Remij 4,679]

8 minutes ago, Goukosan said:

You will get 60fps 4k games....but 8K 60 FPS won't be common place on launch systems next gen. 

 

 

I honestly don't think consoles will even live to see the day where they can render at 8K 60fps.

[DynamiteCop 2,086]

3 minutes ago, Remij_ said:

I honestly don't think consoles will even live to see the day where they can render at 8K 60fps.

Even 30 is questionable, I don't think they understand how high this resolution is and the demand required. it's a 4x increase in pixel output over 4K which consoles even like the Xbox One X still struggle to do at 30 FPS.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Nya`

[Remij 4,679]

12 minutes ago, Nya` said:

Even 30 is questionable, I don't think they understand how high this resolution is and the demand required. it's a 4x increase in pixel output over 4K which consoles even like the Xbox One X still struggle to do at 30 FPS.

It's a ridiculous amount of pixels.  The memory requirements will shoot through the roof with next gen games.

 

With 2x Titan RTX cards, people are playing games at 8K 60fps.  Of course, the experience isn't perfect either, because the memory bandwidth isn't there.  But 2 Titan RTX cards is like 32TFlops of FP32 power lmao..  Comparing AMD flops to Nvidia flops (jury is still out on Navi) that would be over 40TFlops of compute...  I doubt were going to get that the gen after next.. lol.

 

(and that's based on CURRENT gen games like Sekiro and RE2)  When we actually look at next gen games pushing graphical barriers... it pushes that out even farther.   Barring some huge advancement in tech.. it's far far away.  And by that time.. people will likely be happy with streaming and the convenience of it.