AMD Premiere: Together we advance PCs - Ryzen 7000 release date September 27th

[Remij 4,690]

Just now, sugarhigh said:

The difference between that and a PC is smaller than ever tho. It seems like the era of very custom console hardware is dead.

Exactly.  I miss the days of proprietary console chips and GPUs.  Fully custom architectures which excelled a specific things.

 

Now they're just fucking PCs  

 

And in the end... that's what they will end up being.  Generic PCs in a small form factor box.  They're already dangerously close to that.

[sugarhigh 519]

34 minutes ago, Remij said:

Exactly.  I miss the days of proprietary console chips and GPUs.  Fully custom architectures which excelled a specific things.

 

Now they're just fucking PCs  

 

And in the end... that's what they will end up being.  Generic PCs in a small form factor box.  They're already dangerously close to that.

Yeah and this is why SteamOS could be a big fucking deal when it is released as a general install. You can turn any PC parts you can find into a console. And one that is better in many ways to what Sony and MS have done.

[-GD-X★ 7,761]

37 minutes ago, Remij said:

What strengths?  Console architecture IS PC architecture.  Consoles have had unified memory for generations now.  The new thing they have is SSDs.... which PC's have had for ages.

 

Every other strength of the console has nothing to do with the actual technologies within... but the simplicity of development.

 

Developers are making their games.... and they are making decisions early on in development which considers the fact that these games will not be exclusive to that console.  That's simply the reality now. 

 

PC games have never ever in history been designed from the ground up for only the top end PC hardware out there.  Now that PC and console technology has converged... you have consoles which equate to mid-range PCs... which is typically what everything is now designed around regardless of whether it's console or PC.

 

Essentially the base spec for games right now is a mid range PC.... consoles are keeping it at that level.  That's where everything converged.  

i dunno man. crysis was like the benchmark for years.

[Remij 4,690]

8 minutes ago, -GD-X said:

i dunno man. crysis was like the benchmark for years.

Crysis scaled across lots of hardware.  The entire reason why it remained a benchmark for years was because it was built to scale towards the future.

 

Think about it... there's nothing technically stopping developers right now, from scaling games up from the baseline, throwing RT on everything and throwing way more objects and physics around on PC.

 

They COULD do that... but the reason why they don't nowadays?  Because gamers can't seem to differentiate settings meant for future hardware, and "optimization"....  If a developer releases a game.. and has settings which can be pushed way beyond normal, meant for future hardware... they will be told their game isn't optimized worth shit, and this and that.... so they don't bother anymore.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Remij

[-GD-X★ 7,761]

Just now, Remij said:

Crysis scaled across lots of hardware.  The entire reason why it remained a benchmark for years was because it was built to scale towards the future.

 

Think about it... there's nothing technically stopping developers right now, from scaling games up from the baseline, throwing RT on everything and throwing way more objects and physics around on PC.

 

They COULD do that... but the reason why they don't nowadays?  Because gamers can't seem to differentiate settings meant for future hardware, and "optimization"....  If a developer releases a game.. and has settings which can be pushed way beyond normal, meant for future hardware... they will be told their game isn't optimized worth shit, and this and that.... so they don't bother anymore.

ah that makes sense. a damn shame.

[Remij 4,690]

Just now, -GD-X said:

ah that makes sense. a damn shame.

Yeah.  Creating custom tailored content specifically for one platform is simply far too expensive these days.  The biggest limiting factor to visual quality is budget... it's not even really about the tech anymore.  You just need armies of artists and a lot of time.  

 

It's not a even "PC" problem... it's just where game development ended up converging.  There's too much risk to only develop a game on PC... especially considering there's no good reason to not also release on consoles at that point.  Both sets of hardware are capable of producing the same games... so why not just do both and lower the risk?

 

That's even happening at the highest level now with consoles themselves.  AAA console games need to sell millions upon millions to break even, and even more to make real money.  Sony themselves know the risk.. and that's why they're diversifying their game portfolio and expanding out to other platforms... because if even one of their big AAA games fails... that can mean the end of that studio..  It's really high stakes and they need low risk/high reward projects like mobile and service games to ease the burden if something goes sideways.

 

 

 

 

[Goukosan 2,258]

3 hours ago, -GD-X said:

i dunno man. crysis was like the benchmark for years.

Bingo. 

 

Developers aren't developing PC games from the ground up to push PC hardware any more. Those days are done. 

 

You will get slightly prettier versions of console games either day and date and hope it was optimized well for PC. 

 

Or months and years later when the developer is ready to get some extra $$ by releasing a PC version. 

 

[FIREPOWER 736]

 Absolutely glorious. Gonna be building my new PC this holiday with one of these and possibly the RTX 4090 if the 4080 doesn’t release this year.

[FIREPOWER 736]

7 hours ago, Remij said:

There's a $500M AAA built from the ground up for PC game in development  

 

 

 

 

It's actually been in development SINCE back in the day   

As a Star Citizen backer this joke kinda hurts but it's hilarious and true  

 

 

I just hope we still get Squadron 42 at least before the decade runs out lol.

Edited August 31, 2022 by FIREPOWER

[jehurey 3,273]

As I've been hearing from some "PC gamers" on twitter recently, developers aren't doing things, even basic things that SUPPOSEDLY shouldn't be alot of work to implement, like "pre-generating shader caches upon launch" of the game

 

Which is resulting is PC games, almost all major releases, having stuttering problems when they launch.

 

Sony heavily advertised that their direct-loading from storage was going to be such a major factor in their PS5 exclusives, that it would actually CHANGE the way they design levels in games, or implement game mechanics.

 

That's not going to be replicated and implemented anytime soon with PCs.  Microsoft pushed that feature to Windows 11, and that's not going to be adopted by the majority of people. Their adoption numbers already are abysmal.

 

Nvidia has their equivalent solution, but like alot of thing that they talk about in their presentations, they never seem to follow up on it within a reasonable time frame.

[Remij 4,690]

19 minutes ago, jehurey said:

As I've been hearing from some "PC gamers" on twitter recently, developers aren't doing things, even basic things that SUPPOSEDLY shouldn't be alot of work to implement, like "pre-generating shader caches upon launch" of the game

 

Which is resulting is PC games, almost all major releases, having stuttering problems when they launch.

 

Sony heavily advertised that their direct-loading from storage was going to be such a major factor in their PS5 exclusives, that it would actually CHANGE the way they design levels in games, or implement game mechanics.

 

That's not going to be replicated and implemented anytime soon with PCs.  Microsoft pushed that feature to Windows 11, and that's not going to be adopted by the majority of people. Their adoption numbers already are abysmal.

 

Nvidia has their equivalent solution, but like alot of thing that they talk about in their presentations, they never seem to follow up on it within a reasonable time frame.

You have no idea what you're talking about  

[jehurey 3,273]

Just now, Remij said:

You have no idea what you're talking about  

LOL no, you know I'm right, because if I were wrong, you'd actually have a response.

 

Instead, you're just typing what you HOPE.

[Remij 4,690]

13 minutes ago, jehurey said:

LOL no, you know I'm right, because if I were wrong, you'd actually have a response.

 

Instead, you're just typing what you HOPE.

Most of those PC games with stutters are low end Unreal Engine games by indie and AA developers.  They certainly exist.. some being more egregious than others, sure.

 

Epic is already fixing how their engine gathers PSO data, so developers don't have to do it manually... which was the problem before.  Before, to generate PSO caches they'd have to do a lot of manual work, playing the game, generating the caches, then rebuild the game package including it back into the game code, and then repeating the process many times to build a full cache.  If they make any changes to shaders after that fact, it can invalidate the cache and they have to do it again.  The engine's documentation was really piss poor, with many mid sized and smaller studios not even knowing they had to do it manually.. so some games shipped without any PSO caches.

 

That's why it doesn't effect all UE4 games... but some of them.  Studios with actual engineers and low level programmers know how to do it properly, and also have built their own methods of automating the PSO gathering process.  Many studios only have tech artists, but not low level programmers.. which is why they're using UE to begin with.

 

Epic are fixing this issue and automating it for developers so they don't have to do anything manually anymore.  As they build and play and test the game, the caches get built without having to rebuild the package, and now instead of compiling the shaders just-in-time when the drawcall is made, they're compiling the shaders ahead of time when the asset is first loaded into memory.  That gives them time to ensure the shaders/PSOs are compiled before they're needed to be drawn.  Not only that, before, developers weren't able to pre-generate their Niagra particle system PSOs, but now they can.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Remij

[Remij 4,690]

Also, Forspoken will be the first game to support DirectStorage... and Nixxes is already experimenting with DirectStorage.  The releases are basically waiting for GPU based decompression to ship.  Nvidia and AMD are both ready.. it's probably Intel holding it up.

 

Already under 2 seconds.. and this is without GPU based decompression

 

 

 

And DirectStorage is supported on both Windows 10 and 11.  Windows 11 simply has some I/O stack improvements over Windows 10.

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Remij

[jehurey 3,273]

14 minutes ago, Remij said:

 

Epic are fixing this issue and automating it for developers so they don't have to do anything manually anymore

 

 

 

 

 

you're proving my point.

 

and what something like DirectStorage and any video game that is built from the ground up to use advantage of it, like PS5 exclusives will..............are not going to be on PC anytime soon.

 

It has to be widespread adoption before developers even bother.

 

7 minutes ago, Remij said:

Also, Forspoken will be the first game to support DirectStorage... and Nixxes is already experimenting with DirectStorage.

 

LOL

 

Its late 2022.

 

"First game"

 

"This developer is experimenting with it"

 

That's another way of saying "no way in hell this is having widespread adoption until after 2025."

[Remij 4,690]

3 minutes ago, jehurey said:

you're proving my point.

 

and what something like DirectStorage and any video game that is built from the ground up to use advantage of it, like PS5 exclusives will..............are not going to be on PC anytime soon.

 

It has to be widespread adoption before developers even bother.

 

LOL

 

Its late 2022.

 

"First game"

 

"This developer is experimenting with it"

 

That's another way of saying "no way in hell this is having widespread adoption until after 2025."

You're wrong LOL.  Forspoken is using it  

 

And widespread adoption?  Oh Jerky.. please list me all the PS5 games that are utilizing the SSD for never before possible gameplay?  

 

Ratchet and Clank?  That game is already coming to PC... what are you going to say then? LOL

Returnal?  Already coming to PC.

Forspoken? LOL coming to PC already under 2 second load times

 

LOL you have NO fucking idea what you're talking about  

 

And yea, developers are experimenting and testing it... that's how things typically go when they're being adopted  

Edited August 31, 2022 by Remij

[jehurey 3,273]

Just now, Remij said:

You're wrong LOL.  Forspoken is using it  

 

And widespread adoption?  Oh Jerky.. please list me all the PS5 games that are utilizing the SSD for never before possible gameplay?  

 

I love how you/'re trying to bash slow adoption for something on the PS5.........which your example for the PC is TWO YEARS BEHIND.

 

Rift Apart is going to be almost two years old by the time Forspoken comes out

 

You don't know anything about how its implemented, either.

[jehurey 3,273]

LOL, I just went and googled..............Forspoken is using direct storage simply for its initial load time.

 

In other words...........the game clearly isn't designed around PS5's fast-loading tech, and is not implemented in any way the game is designed.

 

Congrats on being completely wrong.

[Remij 4,690]

6 minutes ago, jehurey said:

LOL, I just went and googled..............Forspoken is using direct storage simply for its initial load time.

 

In other words...........the game clearly isn't designed around PS5's fast-loading tech, and is not implemented in any way the game is designed.

 

Congrats on being completely wrong.

^

 

OMFG

[jehurey 3,273]

5 minutes ago, Remij said:

^

 

OMFG

He doesn't have anything else to respond, because he can't.

 

.........again

 

I just nullified his little example., and he knows it.

 

I always love it when this guy does the predictable. When he knows I've cornered him, he tries to laugh it off. LOL