The housing market is a joke

[Tears of the Cows 1,210]

8 minutes ago, Hot Sauce said:

 

I'm saying that any housing market where $300k gets you a 1500 square foot home is hardly a disaster. I'm from Toronto and the average detached home price is $960k USD. $300k USD gets you a 500 square foot 1+1 condo in an undesirable part of the city.

 

It's not even like NY/SF/LA where it's been ridiculous for decades and that's just what you expect. When I came out of uni in 2009 and got my first job at PwC I was looking at brand new 800 square foot condos in the downtown core for $250k CAD. Now those same condos are all $800k+ even with the decade of deprecation. That's a disaster.

This isn’t true at all. In Pittsburgh a few years ago, 300k got you a decent size house. Now those same houses are 500-800k. I’m talking 1700-2500sqft homes in decent shape. 
 

Now in Pittsburgh it’s 400k for 1000-1300sqft gutted homes. 
 

it doesn’t really make sense if that’s what you’re wondering. 
 

here’s a home I bid 250k on that went for over 300k, when asking price was 220k

 

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/225-Martsolf-Ave-Pittsburgh-PA-15229/11408659_zpid/?utm_source=txtshare

 

Didn’t have ac and had an old furnance but was structurally sound and in good shape. 
 

so no, you’re wrong. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Jerrys Hair Line

[Hot Sauce 2,733]

8 minutes ago, Jerrys Hair Line said:

This isn’t true at all. In Pittsburgh a few years ago, 300k got you a decent size house. Now those same houses are 500-800k. I’m talking 1700-2500sqft homes in decent shape. 
 

Now in Pittsburgh it’s 400k for 1000-1300sqft gutted homes. 
 

it doesn’t really make sense if that’s what you’re wondering. 

 

>This isn't true at all

>Example that proves my point

 

Lol

[SheepKilla 473]

27 minutes ago, Hot Sauce said:

 

I'm saying that any housing market where $300k gets you a 1500 square foot home is hardly a disaster. I'm from Toronto and the average detached home price is $960k USD. $300k USD gets you a 500 square foot 1+1 condo in an undesirable part of the city.

 

It's not even like NY/SF/LA where it's been ridiculous for decades and that's just what you expect. When I came out of uni in 2009 and got my first job at PwC I was looking at brand new 800 square foot condos in the downtown core for $250k CAD. Now those same condos are all $800k+ even with the decade of deprecation. That's a disaster.

Right, but one extreme case in another country doesn't make another extreme case better. Just like how I could cite billion dollar homes in Zimbabwe or whatever and make both examples look foolish.

 

300k for a single family home in CT is still a laughably bad idea. Period. Just because it takes him 50 years to pay off instead of 90 doesn't mean it's OK. 

 

 

[-GD-X★ 7,741]

9 hours ago, Hot Sauce said:

 

I'm saying that any housing market where $300k gets you a 1500 square foot home is hardly a disaster. I'm from Toronto and the average detached home price is $960k USD. $300k USD gets you a 500 square foot 1+1 condo in an undesirable part of the city.

 

It's not even like NY/SF/LA where it's been ridiculous for decades and that's just what you expect. When I came out of uni in 2009 and got my first job at PwC I was looking at brand new 800 square foot condos in the downtown core for $250k CAD. Now those same condos are all $800k+ even with the decade of deprecation. That's a disaster.

Yeah, I could never fuck with that. My cousins in Canada told me about the craziness in Tortondo (I had to give it a SW spin). Amazing place, though (at least it was back in the day). 

[-GD-X★ 7,741]

@Jerrys Hair Line at least you aren’t in  Honolulu lol. Check out the prices there. 

[Casual 732]

7 hours ago, Hot Sauce said:

 

I'm saying that any housing market where $300k gets you a 1500 square foot home is hardly a disaster. I'm from Toronto and the average detached home price is $960k USD. $300k USD gets you a 500 square foot 1+1 condo in an undesirable part of the city.

 

It's not even like NY/SF/LA where it's been ridiculous for decades and that's just what you expect. When I came out of uni in 2009 and got my first job at PwC I was looking at brand new 800 square foot condos in the downtown core for $250k CAD. Now those same condos are all $800k+ even with the decade of deprecation. That's a disaster.

yeah tbh my plan is probably to sell in a few years and bounce to calgary lol.

 

GTA is obnoxious these days. hindsight i wish i just stretched myself thin and bought something immediately after school, but oh well.

[Tears of the Cows 1,210]

8 hours ago, Hot Sauce said:

 

>This isn't true at all

>Example that proves my point

 

Lol

Oh I misread your post lol. Yeah 300k usd for 500sqft… yikes. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Jerrys Hair Line

[Tears of the Cows 1,210]

1 hour ago, -GD-X said:

@Jerrys Hair Line at least you aren’t in  Honolulu lol. Check out the prices there. 

Yeah I have a friend there. They’re moving lol

[Hot Sauce 2,733]

16 hours ago, SheepKilla said:

Right, but one extreme case in another country doesn't make another extreme case better.

 

One extreme case doesn't make another extreme case any better, that I agree with. The average home price in San Fran is 50% higher than Toronto. Am I going to stop crying about being priced out of moving back to the city I was born and raised in? Of course not. I wouldn't be from Toronto if I didn't complain about Toronto.

 

$300k in CT isn't an extreme case, though. The median salary in the US is $70k. The median house price in the US is $430k. The median salary in CT is $80k. The median house price is $330k.

 

Twinblade has my sympathies regardless, though, as being single and relatively early in his new career path the state's median salary is probably not quite what he's making just yet and he doesn't have a second income to put towards it.

 

17 hours ago, SheepKilla said:

Just like how I could cite billion dollar homes in Zimbabwe or whatever and make both examples look foolish.

 

I'm not comparing local currencies as I converted to USD. Why do you think homes costing billions of Zimbabwe dollars is relevant to this conversation? 

 

17 hours ago, SheepKilla said:

300k for a single family home in CT is still a laughably bad idea. Period. Just because it takes him 50 years to pay off instead of 90 doesn't mean it's OK. 

 

Do you feel this way only because of the current interest rates or would you find $300k for a home in CT a "laughably bad idea" at pre-COVID levels of 3-4%?

[SheepKilla 473]

1 hour ago, Hot Sauce said:

$300k in CT isn't an extreme case, though. The median salary in the US is $70k. The median house price in the US is $430k. The median salary in CT is $80k. The median house price is $330k.

 

80k? That's median HOUSEHOLD income. Median individual income in CT is 48k. And that's excluding taxes, food, cable, utilities and insurance. Let's add in cars, since CT has no public transport. Excluding all that but including taxes, you can bet they're taking home 37k a year INDIVIDUALLY. It would take over a decade of full time, constant work to pay off that house. 

 

1 hour ago, Hot Sauce said:

I'm not comparing local currencies as I converted to USD. Why do you think homes costing billions of Zimbabwe dollars is relevant to this conversation? 

 

Because prices matter less than prices relative to incomes. Zimbabweans also can't afford to buy any homes. Even though their homes cost 25k USD, the average Zimbabwean makes 1.7k a year. That means they're equal to the Canadian making 64k a year, but who is trying to buy a 900k home. It will take both hypothetically 14 years of constant work to pay off the mortgage. 

 

1 hour ago, Hot Sauce said:

Do you feel this way only because of the current interest rates or would you find $300k for a home in CT a "laughably bad idea" at pre-COVID levels of 3-4%?

As an investor, I would find it appalling at even a 1% interest rate. CT has no future and is a mediocre state. Why would I spend 300k on a SFH in CT when I can buy a mansion in one of the economic powerhouses in the Midwest US for 220k? Or Florida for that matter? Or even a home in an underrated place like Pittsburgh (well, before a few years ago).  

 

Most of these home prices in liberal cities are artificially inflated by politics. It's not just an issue of demand. Many of the politicians create policies to inflate real estate prices by making new construction as costly as possible. Gives them more votes, popular support by home owners, and also inflates their own pockets when their holdings rise. Some cities don't have this dynamic going on. A home in CT for 300k is a scam. 

Edited April 16, 2023 by SheepKilla

[Twinblade★ 3,922]

CT is expensive as fuck and most of the people I know here are in the $50K/year range at most. Even if you choose to rent instead of buying a house you are still going to be paying an unreasonable amount of money. The job market is also a disaster, I can't tell you the amount of jobs I interviewed for that pay $60K-$70K at most but they're looking for a fucking Bill Gates equivalent who is an expert at everything and has no shortcomings. Seriously, I end up doing poorly at interviews because I know im more than qualified for the position but then they blindside me with a laundry list of shit I need to know that wasn't even in the original job description and is completely outside the scope of the salary range they're offering.

[Twinblade★ 3,922]

On a side note I thought it would be interesting to look up houses in the Phillipines the other day and holy fuck  no wonder so many people move to southeast asia, and its not just for sex tourism. You can literally buy a mansion for the equivalent of a $300K-$400K over here.

[SheepKilla 473]

29 minutes ago, Twinblade said:

CT is expensive as fuck and most of the people I know here are in the $50K/year range at most. Even if you choose to rent instead of buying a house you are still going to be paying an unreasonable amount of money. The job market is also a disaster, I can't tell you the amount of jobs I interviewed for that pay $60K-$70K at most but they're looking for a fucking Bill Gates equivalent who is an expert at everything and has no shortcomings. Seriously, I end up doing poorly at interviews because I know im more than qualified for the position but then they blindside me with a laundry list of shit I need to know that wasn't even in the original job description and is completely outside the scope of the salary range they're offering.

Bro interviews are all fake lmfao

 

Only reason you were rejected was for the hot girl. 

 

I'm NOT joking or being tongue in cheek. What these employment "experts" are doing is criminal. 

[Hot Sauce 2,733]

2 hours ago, SheepKilla said:

80k? That's median HOUSEHOLD income. Median individual income in CT is 48k.

 

It is household, yes. I didn't mean to imply it was individual and can see why you thought so by calling it salary. It being household is why I sympathized with Twinblade as households purchase homes.

 

The 48k you're referencing is income per capita and includes children, the unemployed, and the retired. It's certainly not the statistic to use in this discussion as it doesn't reflect what the median working person makes or the purchasing power of a household in buying a house.

 

Quote

And that's excluding taxes, food, cable, utilities and insurance. Let's add in cars, since CT has no public transport. Let's add in cars, since CT has no public transport.

 

The costs of living aren't unique to Connecticut nor is a lack of public transportation. They are higher in Connecticut than most other states, though, so you can cite that as a knock against the state.

 

Quote

Excluding all that but including taxes, you can bet they're taking home 37k a year INDIVIDUALLY. It would take over a decade of full time, constant work to pay off that house. 

I've already said why your figure is the wrong one to use and I'm not sure why you come up with these dramatic calculations when we have industry calculations that determine home affordability. The average household in Connecticut would qualify for a 30-year fixed on the average house assuming a standard down payment and non-mortgage DTI at pre-COVID levels of interest rates fairly easily.

 

Quote

Because prices matter less than prices relative to incomes. 

 

Yeah, exactly. That's why I brought up median incomes vs. median house prices. The median homebuyer is better off in Connecticut  than in a lot of other places because of that relation between income and price.

 

The Zimbabwe stuff is pretty sad, though. I can't imagine dealing with Toronto housing unaffordability without Toronto quality of living.

 

Quote

As an investor, I would find it appalling at even a 1% interest rate. CT has no future and is a mediocre state. Why would I spend 300k on a SFH in CT when I can buy a mansion in one of the economic powerhouses in the Midwest US for 220k? Or Florida for that matter? Or even a home in an underrated place like Pittsburgh (well, before a few years ago).  

 

Most of these home prices in liberal cities are artificially inflated by politics. It's not just an issue of demand. Many of the politicians create policies to inflate real estate prices by making new construction as costly as possible. Gives them more votes, popular support by home owners, and also inflates their own pockets when their holdings rise. Some cities don't have this dynamic going on. A home in CT for 300k is a scam. 

 

Ignoring the political stuff, as an investor I'm pretty disappointed in this response. Connecticut is below the national average in growth of house prices for 2021-2022 (another reason it's not a market to be complaining in for affordability) and looks like a bad investment from that perspective over other areas of the country, but the midwest is just as bad. You mentioned Chicago and the state of Illinois is actually seeing house prices growing less than Connecticut with Chicago actually having negative growth. Gross.

 

We aren't really talking as investors, though. Twinblade lives and works in Connecticut, a home you're going to live in is one of the best investments you can make to build equity instead of paying rent and (as you said) throwing that money into the incinerator. Maybe not at 6.5% since with Connecticut's property taxes you might end up throwing more money into the incinerator at that point that just renting and working on your down payment, but if we're ignoring moving then you'd be a fool not to take property in Connecticut at 1%.

[SheepKilla 473]

25 minutes ago, Hot Sauce said:

Ignoring the political stuff, as an investor I'm pretty disappointed in this response. Connecticut is below the national average in growth of house prices for 2021-2022 (another reason it's not a market to be complaining in for affordability) and looks like a bad investment from that perspective over other areas of the country, but the midwest is just as bad. You mentioned Chicago and the state of Illinois is actually seeing house prices growing less than Connecticut with Chicago actually having negative growth. Gross.

 

We aren't really talking as investors, though. Twinblade lives and works in Connecticut, a home you're going to live in is one of the best investments you can make to build equity instead of paying rent and (as you said) throwing that money into the incinerator. Maybe not at 6.5% since with Connecticut's property taxes you might end up throwing more money into the incinerator at that point that just renting and working on your down payment, but if we're ignoring moving then you'd be a fool not to take property in Connecticut at 1%.

Looking at prices is not investing. Investing is when you see an underrated area, and buy it with a huge time horizon. The key word is UNDERRATED. Chicago is underrated for many reasons. Connecticut is not. The down-side and up-side potential for each are totally different. I would feel confident buying a flat in the middle of Chicago for 140k. I would feel anxiety about buying a flat in Connecticut for 200k. 1 of these has far more room to fall than the other. 

 

Anyway, Twinblade buying a home or not all depends on his needs. If he truly wants to be in CT for the rest of his life sure. But the truly smart thing for him to do would be to just pack up and go to the Midwest or something. He'll not only likely have more employment opportunities but he'll also have a cheaper home from the get-go with more room to appreciate. The man can literally save hundreds of thousands of dollars over his lifetime with this 1 simple move instead of being stuck in CT. 

[SheepKilla 473]

@Hot Sauce I'm sort of being harsh tho. At least you're able to hold a convo on this unlike most on SW. I feel we disagree less than we think in these posts. I just got a different perspective on some things is all. 

[Hot Sauce 2,733]

1 hour ago, SheepKilla said:

Looking at prices is not investing. Investing is when you see an underrated area, and buy it with a huge time horizon. The key word is UNDERRATED. Chicago is underrated for many reasons. Connecticut is not. The down-side and up-side potential for each are totally different. I would feel confident buying a flat in the middle of Chicago for 140k. I would feel anxiety about buying a flat in Connecticut for 200k. 1 of these has far more room to fall than the other. 

 

Investing is just putting money in with an expectation for an RoI. If your long term investment has worse short-to-medium returns then you're just leaving money on the table to re-invest with later.

 

I wouldn't want to deal with Chicago's property taxes and short term growth even if I shared your optimism about it. I just don't believe in the leadership of that city but I guess things change and maybe that's where the undervalue is.

 

If I'm putting money into the Midwest it's probably into a multi-unit place somewhere in Ohio depending on goals.

 

I'm also not pro-Connecticut or anything. I wouldn't invest in anything there either unless I planned to live there. 

 

Quote

Anyway, Twinblade buying a home or not all depends on his needs. If he truly wants to be in CT for the rest of his life sure. But the truly smart thing for him to do would be to just pack up and go to the Midwest or something. He'll not only likely have more employment opportunities but he'll also have a cheaper home from the get-go with more room to appreciate. The man can literally save hundreds of thousands of dollars over his lifetime with this 1 simple move instead of being stuck in CT. 

 

We don't disagree on moving out of CT for job prospects, that's for sure. 

[z,warrior 155]

This thread has been really helpful in making me realize I will rent for the rest of my life. I can't wait to reach 55 years old so I can live in those sweet senior communities for quality but cheap places. In the meantime, I'll have to spend over the recommended 30% of my paycheck on rent to avoid living in the ghetto

[MalaXmaS 648]

There are some houses below the 300k price range.

It can be done in 25 years but do you guys think this whole price bubble will eventually pop or keep going up?

This is so stupid.

 

[Goukosan 2,255]

On 2023-04-14 at 10:34 PM, Twinblade said:

Shit's a disaster in CT at the moment. 1500 square ft houses going for $300K+ has become the norm.

 

That's not a disaster.