GeorgeW1000 118 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 @Cooke (not admin cant help Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Impossible 409 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 We have the opportunity to make things better than before in some ways, and different doesn't have to worse. Only idiots keep thinking "let's keep doing what we were doing". There is life altering good that has come out of this that should be embraced. Link to post Share on other sites
Goukosan 2,255 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Twinblade said: No where in the article does it state that Trump or the administration are trying to suppress data, or give evidence to that fact. you're just 100% speculating. In the very first paragraph "The move has alarmed health experts who fear the data will be politicized or withheld from the public." Later on it says the Health and Human Services database that will receive new information is not open to the public, which could affect the work of scores of researchers, modelers and health officials who rely on C.D.C. data to make projections and crucial decisions. The CDC data is available to the public, accessible to researchers across the country... while HHS data is not publicly available to anyone. His Administration now controls what information anyone sees about the data, all while he himself said he wants the numbers to drop simply by not testing. Moving it to a non public database is suppressing the information from the public genius. Link to post Share on other sites
Twinblade★ 3,921 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Goukosan said: In the very first paragraph "The move has alarmed health experts who fear the data will be politicized or withheld from the public." Later on it says the Health and Human Services database that will receive new information is not open to the public, which could affect the work of scores of researchers, modelers and health officials who rely on C.D.C. data to make projections and crucial decisions. The CDC data is available to the public, accessible to researchers across the country... while HHS data is not publicly available to anyone. His Administration now controls what information anyone sees about the data, all while he himself said he wants the numbers to drop simply by not testing. Moving it to a non public database is suppressing the information from the public genius. Again, its all just speculation based on no evidence. The fact it comes from a liberal haven like NYtimes makes it even harder to take seriously. Link to post Share on other sites
Goukosan 2,255 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, Twinblade said: Again, its all just speculation based on no evidence. The fact it comes from a liberal haven like NYtimes makes it even harder to take seriously. So first you claim I made it up. Then you claim the link provided didn't speak to it. Now you're claiming it doesn't count because it's From the NY times? lmfao. Fox News Hospital coronavirus data to bypass CDC for Trump administration database in Washington the change will hinder the work of medical researchers, modelers and officials because, unlike coronavirus data published by the CDC, the data stored by Health and Human Services will not be readily accessible by the public. four former CDC directors – who served during both Republican and Democratic administrations – accused President Trump and top coronavirus task force officials of politicizing scientific data released by the national public health institute. "We cannot recall over our collective tenure a single time when political pressure led to a change in the interpretation of scientific evidence," they wrote, claiming public health experts now "face two opponents: covid-19, but also political leaders and others attempting to undermine" the CDC. "Unfortunately, their sound science is being challenged with partisan potshots, sowing confusion and mistrust at a time when the American people need leadership, expertise and clarity,” the op-ed said. “These efforts have even fueled a backlash against public health officials across the country: Public servants have been harassed, threatened and forced to resign when we need them most. This is unconscionable and dangerous.” https://www.foxnews.com/us/hospital-coronavirus-data-cdc-trump-washington-dc-health-human-services.amp US News Trump Administration Bypasses CDC on Collection of Coronavirus Hospital Data https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-07-15/trump-administration-bypasses-cdc-on-collection-of-coronavirus-hospital-data CBS News Trump administration orders hospitals to bypass CDC in reporting COVID data https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/coronavirus-data-cdc-hospitals-trump-administration/ That liberal haven that is Fox news Link to post Share on other sites
Twinblade★ 3,921 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Goukosan said: So first you claim I made it up. Then you claim the link provided didn't speak to it. Now you're claiming it doesn't count because it's From the NY times? lmfao. Fox News Hospital coronavirus data to bypass CDC for Trump administration database in Washington the change will hinder the work of medical researchers, modelers and officials because, unlike coronavirus data published by the CDC, the data stored by Health and Human Services will not be readily accessible by the public. four former CDC directors – who served during both Republican and Democratic administrations – accused President Trump and top coronavirus task force officials of politicizing scientific data released by the national public health institute. "We cannot recall over our collective tenure a single time when political pressure led to a change in the interpretation of scientific evidence," they wrote, claiming public health experts now "face two opponents: covid-19, but also political leaders and others attempting to undermine" the CDC. "Unfortunately, their sound science is being challenged with partisan potshots, sowing confusion and mistrust at a time when the American people need leadership, expertise and clarity,” the op-ed said. “These efforts have even fueled a backlash against public health officials across the country: Public servants have been harassed, threatened and forced to resign when we need them most. This is unconscionable and dangerous.” https://www.foxnews.com/us/hospital-coronavirus-data-cdc-trump-washington-dc-health-human-services.amp US News Trump Administration Bypasses CDC on Collection of Coronavirus Hospital Data https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-07-15/trump-administration-bypasses-cdc-on-collection-of-coronavirus-hospital-data CBS News Trump administration orders hospitals to bypass CDC in reporting COVID data https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/coronavirus-data-cdc-hospitals-trump-administration/ That liberal haven that is Fox news Just because they're collecting the data DOES NOT mean they're messing with the numbers. There is no proof to even hint at that, you continue to miss the point so theres no point in extending this argument further. Link to post Share on other sites
Goukosan 2,255 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 (edited) On 2020-08-20 at 10:50 PM, Twinblade said: Well given how much the mainstream continues to fan the covid flames, i can't say im surprised that so many people are still overly paranoid about it. 5 hours ago, Twinblade said: No where in the article does it state that Trump or the administration are trying to suppress data, or give evidence to that fact. you're just 100% speculating. 1 hour ago, Twinblade said: Just because they're collecting the data DOES NOT mean they're messing with the numbers. There is no proof to even hint at that, you continue to miss the point so theres no point in extending this argument further. So first you try to downplay over 170K deaths as "Mainstream fanning the Covid flames".... that got shut down. Then you claimed the article doesn't state they are trying to suppress the data when in fact moving it away from the CDC to the HHS is suppressing the data from the public. Now you're saying just because they are suppressing the data from the public it doesn't mean they're messing with the numbers..... let's see what is actually happening. "officials warned a day later that issues with the reporting system were causing an undercount." https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/05/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/ Oh look at that, after the data was switched to from being publicly available with the CDC to hidden with the HHS, the numbers started being under counted almost immediately as reported by state officials Edited August 22, 2020 by Goukosan Link to post Share on other sites
jehurey 3,230 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 The CDC is reporting that it is undercounting and that the death toll is actually at 215,000 because of the coronavirus. Quote Mounting US deaths reveal an outsize toll on people of color By ANNA FLAGG and DAMINI SHARMA of The Marshall Project and MIKE STOBBE and LARRY FENN of The Associated Press As many as 215,000 more people than usual died in the U.S. during the first seven months of 2020, suggesting that the number of lives lost to the coronavirus is significantly higher than the official toll. And half the dead were people of color — Blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans and, to a marked degree unrecognized until now, Asian Americans. The new figures from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention highlight a stark disparity: Deaths among minorities during the crisis have risen far more than they have among whites. As of the end of July, the official death toll in the U.S. from COVID-19 was about 150,000. It has since grown to over 170,000. But public health authorities have long known that some coronavirus deaths, especially early on, were mistakenly attributed to other causes, and that the crisis may have led indirectly to the loss of many other lives by preventing or discouraging people with other serious ailments from seeking treatment. A count of deaths from all causes during the seven-month period yields what experts believe is a fuller — and more alarming — picture of the disaster and its racial dimensions. People of color make up just under 40% of the U.S. population but accounted for approximately 52% of all the “excess deaths” above normal through July, according to an analysis by The Associated Press and The Marshall Project, a nonprofit news organization covering the criminal justice system. Earlier data on cases, hospitalizations and deaths revealed the especially heavy toll on Black, Hispanic and Native Americans, a disparity attributed to unequal access to health care and economic opportunities. But the increases in total deaths by race were not reported until now; nor was the disproportionate burden on Asian Americans. With this new data, Asian Americans join Blacks and Hispanics among the hardest-hit communities, with deaths in each group up at least 30% this year compared with the average over the last five years, the analysis found. Deaths among Native Americans rose more than 20%, though that is probably a severe undercount because of a lack of data. Deaths among whites were up 9%. The toll on Asian Americans has received far less attention, perhaps in part because the numbers who have died -- about 14,000 more than normal this year -- have been far lower than among several other groups. Still, the 35% increase in Asian American deaths is the second-highest, behind Hispanic Americans. In an average year, somewhere around 1.7 million people die in the United States between January and the end of July. This year the figure was about 1.9 million, according to the CDC. Of the possible 215,000 additional deaths above normal through July -- a total that has since risen to as many as 235,000 —- most were officially attributed to coronavirus infections. The rest were blamed on other causes, including heart disease, high blood pressure and other types of respiratory diseases. I mean, seriously..............how stupid do you have to be to try and downplay this, STILL? Link to post Share on other sites
Chicano3000 119 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 It feels hopeless because we should have shutdown early. Masks should have been mandatory early on (yes, Fauci could have said that too) Flights to the US from ANYWHERE either suspended or having people quarantined first before entering the states. All people, not just Chinese nationals. Testing should not have been debated. Fucking test early and as much as possible. The president should've taken this more seriously in the beginning. We probably would have been talking about something else rn. We would have been a beacon for the entire world to show how a pandemic is handled. Trump would most likely not have to disrupt the postal service because for once in his presidency he was competent. If most people weren't falling for conspiracies and bitching about masks. So many reasons to say "if only". We're stuck here in the "new normal" because we made our bed and are now sleeping on it. Link to post Share on other sites
Goukosan 2,255 Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) 23 hours ago, Twinblade said: Just because they're collecting the data DOES NOT mean they're messing with the numbers. There is no proof to even hint at that, you continue to miss the point so theres no point in extending this argument further. "As many as 215,000 more people than usual died in the U.S. during the first seven months of 2020, suggesting that the number of lives lost to the coronavirus is significantly higher than the official toll......... The new figures from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention" Soooo you were saying? Edited August 23, 2020 by Goukosan Link to post Share on other sites
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