Russia has officially invaded Ukraine

[Twinblade★ 3,925]

54 minutes ago, Cooke said:

If their intended goal was the wipe it off their map then they would have done so already. And with a much larger force. 

 

Of course Ukraine has a right to exist. Which is why I want negotiations. This cannot go on forever. How many more people need two die for the sake of stupid tweets owning Putin? You guys treat this like a fucking joke. 

 

I was selling a BBQ on Facebook market place and it was a Ukrainian woman who came and bought it.  She was in her early 30s, she's from Mariupol, left with the children and her husband is fighting for Ukraine. She told me she wants it to stop, she's lost friends and family. Ukraine cannot win an all out war with Russia. They MUST negotiate or it will get even worse. 

 

So what is the end game for you Twinblade? Do you actually think Russia will just give up and go home? There's people in power far worse than Putin in Russia that want him to annihilate Kyiv. So far he's been restrained. Should Ukraine fight to the last man? Seriously what should they do? 

 

You really have not kept up with this conflict at all have you?

 

Putin absolutely tried to take over the entire country......This is why he invaded on 3 different fronts with the majority of his active military (~200K soldiers). But he and the military leadership completely misjudged the situation, and that was nowhere near enough manpower to take over any significant part of the country. This is why they eventually had to retreat from Kyiv.

 

8 months later and their professional military is in shambles....those 200K were the only ones who actually decently equipped and had professional training, and the majority of them have now been killed or wounded, including elite units (like the VDV) and over 1000 officers have also died.

 

This is why they had no choice but to mobilize an additional 300K, the majority of who will end up being unmotivated, poorly trained, and poorly equipped. Essentially glorified cannon fodder. There are even numerous videos of mobilized soldiers being told that their families need to buy equipment for them. Russia actually just tried to buy a bunch from Turkey but Turkey refused, its pretty telling that the supposed 2nd most powerful military in the world needs to shop around for essential military equipment.

 

But thats not even the full story. Russia is running low on precision weapons, which is why today's strikes throughout Ukraine were actually a pretty bad decision. They're using up stockpiles of weapons that they can't easily replace because of the sanctions. This is why they they had to buy kamikaze drones from Iran, so that they can use those in place of missiles and rocket. The rate at which they're using these weapons is not sustainable in the long term.

 

So yeah, to say they've somehow been restrained is pretty silly....Russia has absolutely been going all out and all this war did was prove that they're not a military superpower and Ukraine absolutely can win against them.

 

Also, that Ukranian woman is in the minority. The last poll I saw said that 87% of Ukranians do not want the war to end if it means they have to concede territory. Meanwhile the opposite is happening in Russia. Even brainwashed Putin lovers are getting fed up with the war and the support for it is continually dropping, especially after mobilization which prompted hundreds of thousands of people to leave Russia. Between their weakening economy, the brain drain, and worsening public support for the war, the country is in a really bad spot. 

 

TIme is not on Russia or Putin's side.

 

 

 

 

[Mr. House 3,371]

22 hours ago, Twinblade said:

 

You really have not kept up with this conflict at all have you?

 

Putin absolutely tried to take over the entire country......This is why he invaded on 3 different fronts with the majority of his active military (~200K soldiers). But he and the military leadership completely misjudged the situation, and that was nowhere near enough manpower to take over any significant part of the country. This is why they eventually had to retreat from Kyiv.

 

8 months later and their professional military is in shambles....those 200K were the only ones who actually decently equipped and had professional training, and the majority of them have now been killed or wounded, including elite units (like the VDV) and over 1000 officers have also died.

 

This is why they had no choice but to mobilize an additional 300K, the majority of who will end up being unmotivated, poorly trained, and poorly equipped. Essentially glorified cannon fodder. There are even numerous videos of mobilized soldiers being told that their families need to buy equipment for them. Russia actually just tried to buy a bunch from Turkey but Turkey refused, its pretty telling that the supposed 2nd most powerful military in the world needs to shop around for essential military equipment.

 

But thats not even the full story. Russia is running low on precision weapons, which is why today's strikes throughout Ukraine were actually a pretty bad decision. They're using up stockpiles of weapons that they can't easily replace because of the sanctions. This is why they they had to buy kamikaze drones from Iran, so that they can use those in place of missiles and rocket. The rate at which they're using these weapons is not sustainable in the long term.

 

So yeah, to say they've somehow been restrained is pretty silly....Russia has absolutely been going all out and all this war did was prove that they're not a military superpower and Ukraine absolutely can win against them.

 

Also, that Ukranian woman is in the minority. The last poll I saw said that 87% of Ukranians do not want the war to end if it means they have to concede territory. Meanwhile the opposite is happening in Russia. Even brainwashed Putin lovers are getting fed up with the war and the support for it is continually dropping, especially after mobilization which prompted hundreds of thousands of people to leave Russia. Between their weakening economy, the brain drain, and worsening public support for the war, the country is in a really bad spot. 

 

TIme is not on Russia or Putin's side.

 

 

 

 

I dunno. Huge parts of Ukraine have no electricity after the recent ballistic missiles' attacks, logistical issues, air defense systems were hit hard. Things could shift back the other way quite fast; wars are unpredictable. 

 

 

[Twinblade★ 3,925]

5 minutes ago, Ramza said:

I dunno. Huge parts of Ukraine have no electricity after the recent ballistic missiles' attacks, logistical issues, air defense systems were hit hard. Things could shift back the other way quite fast; wars are unpredictable. 

 

 

 

Not true. Power has been restored to most areas

 

 

Russia wasted between $400-$700 million worth of missiles and accomplished nothing besides killing civilians which is the only thing they can do

[Mr. House 3,371]

47 minutes ago, Twinblade said:

 

Not true. Power has been restored to most areas

 

 

Russia wasted between $400-$700 million worth of missiles and accomplished nothing besides killing civilians which is the only thing they can do

Well, that was fast.

 

 

[jehurey 3,238]

Hey Cooke, let's pretend that a gang of thugs broke in your hope, and started beating up on your and your loved ones, probably killed some of your pets, and destroyed alot of property.

 

CLEARLY we can't have this continue anymore..............so the police came up with a fantastic solution.

 

We'll get the thugs to stop attacking you, for the forseeable future............we've negotiated with them and they will be hanging out on your lawn in front of your front door.

 

None of them will be taken to jail or removed from your property, but no one else is at risk of dying at this moment in time.

 

Sounds like a good and reasonable deal, right?

[Cooke 2,030]

3 hours ago, jehurey said:

Hey Cooke, let's pretend that a gang of thugs broke in your hope, and started beating up on your and your loved ones, probably killed some of your pets, and destroyed alot of property.

 

CLEARLY we can't have this continue anymore..............so the police came up with a fantastic solution.

 

We'll get the thugs to stop attacking you, for the forseeable future............we've negotiated with them and they will be hanging out on your lawn in front of your front door.

 

None of them will be taken to jail or removed from your property, but no one else is at risk of dying at this moment in time.

 

Sounds like a good and reasonable deal, right?

False equivalences. 

 

Thousands are dead on both sides, infrastructure completely annihilated. 

 

If they continue what will happen?  Rainbows and sunshine? No. 

 

Thousands more dead and more cities destroyed. 

 

And one of them had the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet with a fucking lunatic as commander. 

 

A sane person would want a swift and peaceful conclusion. Because you know what? You have no offramp for this. Ukraine will not defeat Russia in a ground war, they don't have the man power. Should they continue until every last Ukrainian man is dead and then the women and children fight? 

 

What's you're fucking solution smart guy? 

 

Put your boots on Jehurey the basement dweller, you're going to Ukraine to retake Kherson. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by Cooke

[jehurey 3,238]

1 hour ago, Cooke said:

False equivalences. 

 

 

No it isn't

 

Its a rather fitting analogy.

 

and think about it..............you're saying that the people who attack you didn't EVEN DO ANYTHING AS HEINOUS as what Russia did.

 

..........and you still wouldn't want them on your lawn, right?

 

Because if that was the agreement, how could you, in your home, possibly feel safe from that point onwards, seeing as though they remain on your property?

[jehurey 3,238]

yes there is an offramp

 

they get rid of Putin. Or Putin runs back and tries to pretend he didn't lose anything.

 

its just a matter of how much Russian people want to suffer.

[Cooke 2,030]

1 minute ago, jehurey said:

No it isn't

 

Its a rather fitting analogy.

 

and think about it..............you're saying that the people who attack you didn't EVEN DO ANYTHING AS HEINOUS as what Russia did.

 

..........and you still wouldn't want them on your lawn, right?

 

Because if that was the agreement, how could you, in your home, possibly feel safe from that point onwards, seeing as though they remain on your property?

Thanks for ignoring pretty much everything I said just to reiterate your stupid false equivalency 

[jehurey 3,238]

Just now, Cooke said:

Thanks for ignoring pretty much everything I said just to reiterate your stupid false equivalency 

No, you simply didn't respond to what I said.

 

so its you who ignored it.

[Cooke 2,030]

Just now, jehurey said:

yes there is an offramp

 

they get rid of Putin. Or Putin runs back and tries to pretend he didn't lose anything.

 

its just a matter of how much Russian people want to suffer.

Who is "they" ? And who is going to replace him? Medvedev? Lmao. He's even worse and more hawkish

[jehurey 3,238]

2 minutes ago, Cooke said:

Who is "they" ? And who is going to replace him? Medvedev? Lmao. He's even worse and more hawkish

Russians.

 

Its amazing how you have no real argument, so you are now pretending to play stupid.

 

Its also amazing how you are basically insinuating that Putin runs an entire country by himself.

 

Do he launch the nuclear missile, set the coordinates, and fuel the rockets by himself, as well?

[Goukosan 2,256]

2 hours ago, Cooke said:

False equivalences. 

 

Thousands are dead on both sides, infrastructure completely annihilated. 

 

If they continue what will happen?  Rainbows and sunshine? No. 

 

Thousands more dead and more cities destroyed. 

 

And one of them had the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet with a fucking lunatic as commander. 

 

A sane person would want a swift and peaceful conclusion. Because you know what? You have no offramp for this. Ukraine will not defeat Russia in a ground war, they don't have the man power. Should they continue until every last Ukrainian man is dead and then the women and children fight? 

 

What's you're fucking solution smart guy? 

 

Put your boots on Jehurey the basement dweller, you're going to Ukraine to retake Kherson. 

 

Let's hear your solution. 

[Cooke 2,030]

58 minutes ago, Goukosan said:

 

Let's hear your solution. 

Opening a dialogue would be a good start. Maybe Ukraine gives up Crimea permanently and Russia pays for it. Maybe Russia pays reparations and rebuilds everything they destroyed. Or perhaps UN sanctioned and monitored referendums in the Donbas region to see if they actually want to remain part of Ukraine or join Russia without the fucking bloodshed. Ultimately what is a piece of land worth if everyone there is dead? Right now its only going to continue to escalate and to what end? I really don't want to find out. I hope you don't either. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by Cooke

[Goukosan 2,256]

1 minute ago, Cooke said:

Opening a dialogue would be a good start. Maybe Ukraine gives up Crimea permanently and Russia pays for it. Maybe Russia pays reparations and rebuilds everything they destroyed. Or perhaps UN sanctioned and monitored referendums in the Donbas region to see if they actually want to remain part of Ukraine or join Russia without the fucking bloodshed. Ultimately what is a piece of land worth if everyone there is dead? Right now its only going to continue to escalate and to what end? I really don't want to find out. I hope you don't either. 

 

So your solution involves a sovereign nation caving to its invaders.

 

Putin's long term goal is to "rebuild" the USSR in any form or fashion. 

 

So after Ukraine surrenders the regions that Russia wants.  What happens next when Russia goes after another sovereign nation in Putin's bid to expand. 

 

They should cave in too? 

[Cooke 2,030]

1 minute ago, Goukosan said:

 

So your solution involves a sovereign nation caving to its invaders.

 

Putin's long term goal is to "rebuild" the USSR in any form or fashion. 

 

So after Ukraine surrenders the regions that Russia wants.  What happens next when Russia goes after another sovereign nation in Putin's bid to expand. 

 

They should cave in too? 

Russia is going after areas with majority Russian speaking people. They can barely hold on to that. They have no way of doing the same to other countries unless there is actual support from the people living there. You should actually do a little research on the demographics of eastern Ukraine.  It's not as black and white as you seem to think. 

 

In Luhansk 70% of the people speak Russian, not Ukrainian. 

 

In Donetsk 75% speak Russian

 

If 3 quarters of the population in an area don't even speak the native language then it's hard to have a unified country. Language is a common identity. 

 

Perhaps when the borders were drawn after the collapse of the USSR they fucked up? 

 

 

[Goukosan 2,256]

29 minutes ago, Cooke said:

Russia is going after areas with majority Russian speaking people. They can barely hold on to that. They have no way of doing the same to other countries unless there is actual support from the people living there. You should actually do a little research on the demographics of eastern Ukraine.  It's not as black and white as you seem to think. 

 

In Luhansk 70% of the people speak Russian, not Ukrainian. 

 

In Donetsk 75% speak Russian

 

If 3 quarters of the population in an area don't even speak the native language then it's hard to have a unified country. Language is a common identity. 

 

Perhaps when the borders were drawn after the collapse of the USSR they fucked up? 

 

 

 

No shit certain sections of Ukraine speak Russian that's not news.   Did you think that was some sort of revelation? Lmfao. 

 

Nothing you said there justifies Russia invading a sovereign nation. 

 

Lmfao at the bolded part.  @Ramza  are you seeing this? 

 

Hate to say I told you so. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by Goukosan

[Cooke 2,030]

3 minutes ago, Goukosan said:

 

Not shit certain sections of Ukraine speak Russian that not news.   Did you think that was some sort of revelation? Lmfao. 

 

Nothing you said there justifies Russia invading a sovereign nation. 

 

Lmfao at the bolded part.  @Ramza  are you seeing this? 

 

Hate to say I told you so. 

I'm not saying it's justification, I'm saying why they are doing it. Because they are doing this has no bearing on whether they would invade Estonia or Lithuania or Finland. Understanding the motivations is part of how you come to a conclusion 

 

But hey, let's do it your way. More bombs and artillery.  The weapons manufacturers are fucking loving this. 

[Cooke 2,030]

Let's blow up the earth cause Ukraine. Hooray, no one wins 😁

[Mr. House 3,371]

1 hour ago, Goukosan said:

 

No shit certain sections of Ukraine speak Russian that's not news.   Did you think that was some sort of revelation? Lmfao. 

 

Nothing you said there justifies Russia invading a sovereign nation. 

 

Lmfao at the bolded part.  @Ramza  are you seeing this? 

 

Hate to say I told you so. 

Eh, there's nothing wrong with Ukraine's sovereignty, they declared themselves independent after the fall of the Soviet Union. I wouldn't be aware of border dispute; I don't think that's the issue anyway. Cooke is right that there's a lot of pro-Russians in eastern Ukraine though. How many though, I have no idea.