Russia has officially invaded Ukraine

[Goukosan 2,256]

23 minutes ago, Ramza said:

Not quite the same as blowing nord stream pipeline/crimean bridge where it serves no purpose as a false flag operation and changed nothing besides costing big for Putin.

 

I assume that's what you meant by your attempt at sarcasm through some new idiotic posting style.

 

You can chill the fuck out now.

 

[Hot Sauce 2,734]

1 hour ago, Ramza said:

Not quite the same as blowing nord stream pipeline/crimean bridge where it serves no purpose as a false flag operation and changed nothing besides costing big for Putin.

 

I assume that's what you meant by your attempt at sarcasm through some new idiotic posting style.

 

You can chill the fuck out now.

 

I'm sure the Russian disinformation you regurgitate will figure out a way.

[Twinblade★ 3,928]

Progressives just wrote Biden a letter basically asking him to get Ukraine to accept a ceasefire and make peace with Russia. Talk about empowering Russia and convincing them that they can outlast the west and win in the end. What a bunch of dumbasses, Russian propaganda is going to eat up such an obvious sign of weakness.

[Goukosan 2,256]

1 hour ago, Twinblade said:

Progressives just wrote Biden a letter basically asking him to get Ukraine to accept a ceasefire and make peace with Russia. Talk about empowering Russia and convincing them that they can outlast the west and win in the end. What a bunch of dumbasses, Russian propaganda is going to eat up such an obvious sign of weakness.

 

1) It wasn't the full progressive caucus... It was small number of progressives (12)... That took it upon themselves to do this. 

 

I agree this does nothing but empower Russia's propaganda machine because you have those one the right who haven't pulled back that Rhetoric..... And now some Rouges on the left took it upon themselves to do the same. 

 

2) luckily, they have already started back peddled on it... 

 

Several hours after the letter, which was first reported by The Washington Post, was released, the caucus sent a rare follow-up statement intended to fine-tune its original message.

 

“In a letter to President Biden today, my colleagues and I advocated for the administration to continue ongoing military and economic support for Ukrainians while pursuing diplomatic support to Ukraine to ensure we are helpful partners on efforts to reach ‘a solution that is acceptable to the people of Ukraine,” wrote Jayapal.

 

“Let me be clear: we are united as Democrats in our unequivocal commitment to supporting Ukraine in their fight for their democracy and freedom in the face of the illegal and outrageous Russian invasion, and nothing in the letter advocates for a change in that support,” she added.

 

 

 

The orginal letter from earlier today will make the rounds faster than the backtrack.... That was a really stupid move by those 12 try hards.. 

[Mr. House 3,371]

11 hours ago, Hot Sauce said:

 

I'm sure the Russian disinformation you regurgitate will figure out a way.

Lol cry me a river. Posting a video of the geopolitics is not propaganda, the channel of Jake Tran has videos on the corruption of Putin, the Oligarchs of Russia, the invasions of Georgia and Crimea. None one is taking side here except you guys who has issues with peace talk and negotiations because Putin = bad.  

 

12 hours ago, Goukosan said:

 

?

Edited October 25, 2022 by Ramza

[Hot Sauce 2,734]

1 hour ago, Ramza said:

Lol cry me a river. Posting a video of the geopolitics is not propaganda, the channel of Jake Tran has videos on the corruption of Putin, the Oligarchs of Russia, the invasions of Georgia and Crimea. None one is taking side here except you guys who has issues with peace talk and negotiations because Putin = bad.  

 

I don't know who Jake Tran is or what video you're talking about.

 

I have no issues with peace talks. If Russia offered ignoring their war crimes and attempted genocide, removing sanctions, and going back to relations from before the war in return for removing their troops from Ukraine and returning the forcibly removed citizens of Ukraine, I'd be supportive of that deal. That's a pretty shit deal for the west and grossly unfair for Ukraine by any standard. Ceding land they do not own and cannot hold without threatening nuclear war is hardly a fair trade for a reset button that has never been given to an aggressor that is losing. Germany was crippled financially after WW1 and was paying reparations for decades after WW2. I don't support that level of restitution, but I'm not anti-peace because I won't capitulate to a dictator. 

[Goukosan 2,256]

19 minutes ago, Hot Sauce said:

 

I don't know who Jake Tran is or what video you're talking about.

 

I have no issues with peace talks. If Russia offered ignoring their war crimes and attempted genocide, removing sanctions, and going back to relations from before the war in return for removing their troops from Ukraine and returning the forcibly removed citizens of Ukraine, I'd be supportive of that deal. That's a pretty shit deal for the west and grossly unfair for Ukraine by any standard. Ceding land they do not own and cannot hold without threatening nuclear war is hardly a fair trade for a reset button that has never been given to an aggressor that is losing. Germany was crippled financially after WW1 and was paying reparations for decades after WW2. I don't support that level of restitution, but I'm not anti-peace because I won't capitulate to a dictator. 

 

Exactly this. 

[Mr. House 3,371]

14 minutes ago, Hot Sauce said:

 

I don't know who Jake Tran is or what video you're talking about.

 

I have no issues with peace talks. If Russia offered ignoring their war crimes and attempted genocide, removing sanctions, and going back to relations from before the war in return for removing their troops from Ukraine and returning the forcibly removed citizens of Ukraine, I'd be supportive of that deal. That's a pretty shit deal for the west and grossly unfair for Ukraine by any standard. Ceding land they do not own and cannot hold without threatening nuclear war is hardly a fair trade for a reset button that has never been given to an aggressor that is losing. Germany was crippled financially after WW1 and was paying reparations for decades after WW2. I don't support that level of restitution, but I'm not anti-peace because I won't capitulate to a dictator. 

Putin is not going to back down without gaining anything. If it's not the 'annexed regions' what else, it's going be? I mean, I don't necessarily disagree with you here but not expecting to do concessions because he's a dictator is not good enough, I'm afraid. 

 

I expect once winter weather arrives and European starts paying the price for energy scarcity, you'll see a lot more NATO countries who are going to want to negotiate something. This isn't just a problem of nuclear deterrence. I think the economic impact on the world stage in these already hard times are the biggest issue and that's partly why I support any kind of peace talk. The longer it goes on, the worse it's going to get, for everyone. 

 

 

[Twinblade★ 3,928]

2 hours ago, Ramza said:

Putin is not going to back down without gaining anything. If it's not the 'annexed regions' what else, it's going be? I mean, I don't necessarily disagree with you here but not expecting to do concessions because he's a dictator is not good enough, I'm afraid. 

 

I expect once winter weather arrives and European starts paying the price for energy scarcity, you'll see a lot more NATO countries who are going to want to negotiate something. This isn't just a problem of nuclear deterrence. I think the economic impact on the world stage in these already hard times are the biggest issue and that's partly why I support any kind of peace talk. The longer it goes on, the worse it's going to get, for everyone. 

 

 

   
You keep on circling back to a inevitable energy crisis in Europe even though there’s no evidence of that happening anytime soon. Gas in particular is at its lowest price in months and winter reserves in most countries are nearing their max capacities 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2022/10/25/business/europe-gas-prices-winter.amp.html
 

There is no logical reason to have any kind of ceasefire right now especially when Ukraine still has an advantage on the battlefield and is slowly taking back and liberating it’s occupied territories. A ceasefire would only benefit Putin and reward him for his aggression.

[Cooke 2,030]

1 hour ago, Twinblade said:

   
You keep on circling back to a inevitable energy crisis in Europe even though there’s no evidence of that happening anytime soon. Gas in particular is at its lowest price in months and winter reserves in most countries are nearing their max capacities 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2022/10/25/business/europe-gas-prices-winter.amp.html
 

There is no logical reason to have any kind of ceasefire right now especially when Ukraine still has an advantage on the battlefield and is slowly taking back and liberating it’s occupied territories. A ceasefire would only benefit Putin and reward him for his aggression.

You honestly think there won't be an energy crisis in Europe? 

[Hot Sauce 2,734]

5 hours ago, Cooke said:

You honestly think there won't be an energy crisis in Europe? 

 

Why do you think there will be one? European storage is basically full and a tenth of the world's LNG ships are off-shore of European ports acting as additional floating storage. Supply certainly won't be an issue.

 

European gas prices are within 10% of where they were this time last year and continuing to fall.

 

[Cooke 2,030]

7 minutes ago, Hot Sauce said:

 

Why do you think there will be one? European storage is basically full and a tenth of the world's LNG ships are off-shore of European ports acting as additional floating storage. Supply certainly won't be an issue.

 

European gas prices are within 10% of where they were this time last year and continuing to fall.

 

People aren't heating their homes with gasoline.  It's the natural gas that's the issue. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Cooke

[Hot Sauce 2,734]

36 minutes ago, Cooke said:

People aren't heating their homes with gasoline.  It's the natural gas that's the issue. 

 

LNG is liquid natural gas.

[Cooke 2,030]

46 minutes ago, Hot Sauce said:

 

LNG is liquid natural gas.

Misread that. Which gas are you talking about in the second paragraph? 

[Hot Sauce 2,734]

55 minutes ago, Cooke said:

Misread that. Which gas are you talking about in the second paragraph? 

 

The whole post is about natural gas.

[Twinblade★ 3,928]

Quote

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s rhetoric indicates that he is not interested in negotiating seriously with Ukraine and retains maximalist objectives for the war. Putin stated that Ukraine has “lost sovereignty” in a meeting with Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) security officials on October 26.[5] Putin stated that the United States is using Ukraine as a “battering ram” against Russia, the Russian-Belarusian Union State, the Collective Security Treaty Organization, and the CIS. Russian State Duma Speaker Vyacheslav Volodin amplified this narrative, stating that “Ukraine has lost the ability to exist as a state,” “Ukraine is occupied by NATO,” and “[Ukraine] has become a colony of the US” on October 26.[6] This language is incompatible with negotiations on an equal basis for a ceasefire, let alone a resolution to the conflict that Russia began. It instead strongly suggests that the Kremlin still seeks a military victory in Ukraine and regime change in Kyiv that would affect the permanent reorientation of Ukraine away from the West and into Russia’s control. It also indicates that Putin’s aims transcend the territory he has claimed to have annexed, let alone the areas his forces actually control.

 

BuT We NeEd A cEaSeFiRe AnD PeAcE!!11

[Mr. House 3,371]

11 hours ago, Twinblade said:

 

BuT We NeEd A cEaSeFiRe AnD PeAcE!!11

We definitely peace.

 

I never seen anyone being truly anti diplomacy and anti peace before. That's just fucking stupid to me. Sorry but you should really change how you're phrasing your shit.

[Mr. House 3,371]

On 2022-10-25 at 10:10 PM, Hot Sauce said:

 

Why do you think there will be one? European storage is basically full and a tenth of the world's LNG ships are off-shore of European ports acting as additional floating storage. Supply certainly won't be an issue.

 

European gas prices are within 10% of where they were this time last year and continuing to fall.

 

That's nice and all but winter is coming. Most European countries were already having energy poverty problems before this, especially the UK. The poorest will get hit the hardest and will have to cut down on heating, you can hope this will be a mild winter. Actually, everyone will have to cut down on energy consumption in some ways and it will impact their standards of living. 

 

I honestly think this is just wishful thinking. We'll see how it goes, but I'm not so optimistic. All it probably takes is an abnormally cold winter and they're royally fucked. 

 

 

[Hot Sauce 2,734]

6 minutes ago, Ramza said:

That's nice and all

 

Facts over feelings.

[Twinblade★ 3,928]

31 minutes ago, Ramza said:

We definitely peace.

 

I never seen anyone being truly anti diplomacy and anti peace before. That's just fucking stupid to me. Sorry but you should really change how you're phrasing your shit.

 

Please name a time in history when appeasing a genocidal dictator has actually benefitted the world in any way and resulted in a lasting peace?